Grizzly machines now made in China

[Robert Engel]

You do get what you pay for. But, I think the theme of this "argument" is that just because it is made in China or Taiwan, it can't be automatically be considered garbage.

No matter where something is made, you still need to be aware of how it is made, and judge the quality based on first hand experience of others, your own inspection and similar.

Ive bought some tools made in Europe that were complete garbage as well. A few hand tools made in Germany come to mind. I never assume something is top end just because of where it was made.

As much as I hate to see manufacturing leaving the US, what he is saying is true.

For the longest time, I refused to even look at the WoodRiver planes because it was made in China. Instead I was left with getting ripped off on Ebay because I couldn't afford/refused to pay for the premium planes on the market.

When they went on sale I remember I bought a #6 for $125 I think figuring "its a POJ what the heck, I'll just take it back". Boy was I surprised! No question it competes quite nicely with so called premium quality made in USA planes (you know who I'm talking about) for 1/2 the price.

What I'm concerned about is how long will it take before the US doesn't even KNOW how to make anything if they wanted to?

[Igor Vasilenko]

Not if I gain only a little bit in quality. Not everything old American is good. If you think a 1950's Uni oozes old American quality, then that would make it's worth about $2800 considering a G1023 or G0690 is about $1400. I have not seen anybody on this forum say that they would even give $1400 for a Uni let alone $2800.

Cary, the main reason few members on this forum would pay $2,800 for a Unisaw is mainly due to the fact that the market is now saturated with them - NOT because it is not necessarily worth that money. About 35 - 40 years ago, 1/2 to 5/8's of the new retail price was normally the base starting price for a decent used Uni, and that price went up depending on age, condition, etc. That was back before most of the Taiwan imports began coming in. All these Asian import businesses made the market so saturated with older equipment being sold off, because you'd be surprised how many guys think that newer should normally mean better in some way. I'd be safe to say that Asian equipment now numbers in the millions of units brought to NA, especially in the hobby level.

I own 4 Unisaws and 2 General 250's and 350's, mainly for the reason of them being so cheap. (I only can use one at a time, LOL) Most of mine I got for less than $100 each. Some came with original guarding and an upgraded fence system. Can't argue with that, eh?

Hence the reason I am shocked sometimes to see some folks shell out the money for something that is so abundant on the used market (like a cabinet TS), and takes almost nothing to get running smoothly, in the event it doesn't come that way already. (Bearing change, new belts, a bit of tlc).

To conclude this, I'll say that I have bought a few machines built in Taiwan and Japan. In fact, two of my shapers are built in Taiwan and I am really happy with how they perform! They cost comparably to their mainland China counterpart, but are built in a factory that has been building shapers since the early 70's.

When possible, I buy made in America. Have I bought crap that was labelled "made in USA" before? You bet! But then the onus is not on me, but on those that tarnish the image of a country conceived in freedom.

My 2 cents. FWIW.

[Ray Newman]

Igor Vasilenko +1

[Van Huskey]

All these Asian import businesses made the market so saturated with older equipment being sold off, because you'd be surprised how many guys think that newer should normally mean better in some way. I'd be safe to say that Asian equipment now numbers in the millions of units brought to NA, especially in the hobby level.

I think there are other more significant issues behind the saturation of Unis and to a lesser degree PM 66s. First, those are light duty saws and were mainly found in schools and light duty commercial (cabinet shops). Schools have been replacing these saws with Sawstop table saws and I have seen auction after auction with a dozen or so school Unis up for sale. Cabinet shops that are doing well and still have Unis around often are dumping them to make room for sliders which increase production, safety and accuracy and are less likely to be from Asia. There were a few Unis in medium to heavy commercial work, usually as a secondary cutting machine, but in this area CNC has pushed the table saw aside. The bottom line is the commercial use of traditional woodworking machines is almost done and cabinet shops have been moving to sliders and schools are moving to teaching CNC based work and/or installing Sawstops. While there are other issues at play like cheaper Asian alternatives the main reason for being able to buy old iron for pennies on the dollar is that industry (the ones still in NA) don;t use them anymore and have replaced or are replacing them with more accurate and cost effective machines.

[Ray Newman]

Van Huskey: "good take" on the situation!

[David Kumm]

I agree with the cost effective part, not necessarily the more precise part. The old iron had so many adjustments to compensate for wear they can still be as accurate or more so than new. The problem is that few machine guys are left to adjust them or understand how to oil bearings. The better values in older saws are the Delta 12-14 and PM 72 but the UNi has a cult following that I can't explain. Dave.