General update and (skew) chisel question

[Chance Raser]

So some (most) will probably remember me from a few months ago asking about tool aquisition and limited initial budget purchases from jumping in the vortex.

Well ive finally produced something. See next post (for some reason i am unable to upload pics via my computer, but it works from my phone.) I know i have a long way to go, but damnit i made something!

Sharpening does not seem difficult, i ended up with a 10" grinder, 8" 180 CBN, 8" white Norton AO. I built a roborest-like tool rest, a vari grind, and the holders. Sharpening is going well. I think i am getting really good results, just need to learn proper technique.

I have been watching numerous videos on how to actually use the tools i got PSI Benjamins best . So the small bowl i made was made almost completely with the 5/8" scraper. i need to work on the angles/grinds of the gouges before i am comfortable with them, the out of the box angles have too much catch for my skill/comfort right now.

I have read alot about negative rake scrapers, and i want one. I have also read about the value in a skew. At my early stage of learning i am almost convinced i should reshape my 1" skew chisel into a 1" negative rake scraper. From what i understand, skews don't have as much of a purpose with bowl turning when compared to spindle turning. I am interested in bowl turning. I understand you can get an amazingly smooth finish using a skew on the outside of a bowl, but won't a NR scaper be able to achieve the same thing if used correctly?

Do i need a 1" skew for anything right now? i think the NR scraper is the way to go.

Thanks

[Chance Raser]

The bowl is green mesquite. 4.5" wide, a little over 3" tall. I put it in a paper bag with some shavings, gonna let it dry and hopefully it doesn't crack. I know it looks rough, but 1st try!

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Comments welcome. Can't hurt my feelings.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Chance,

I love my skew..I have several..for spindle turning. While there are a few people who might use the skew on the outside edge of a bowl, I wouldn't recommend it.

My personal taste for a negative rake scraper ( I have a couple) is a really thick one. Thicker means more mass and less bounce resulting in a smoother finish. I wouldn't regrind a skew into a scraper.

[Roger Chandler]

Using a skew for bowl turning is risky, and not generally recommended.....it is a spindle tool. One has to be pretty skilled and very proficient at tool control to even consider a skew for use on a bowl....even outside scraping. Not to mention the learning of a bowl gouge is so much easier than a skew, and on a bowl, way, way easier.
It amazes me that anyone would bypass a bowl gouge for its designed use to use a skew in a way it was not designed to be used.
Not intending to be flippant in any way with my comment, but why not just learn, or have someone teach you the proper use of a bowl gouge, and advance big time in your stated desire to turn bowls? Food for thought.

I agree with Ken, that most skews won't have the mass of a good scraper.

[Mark Greenbaum]

That's a nice beginning for a first bowl. What's the wall thickness? If you're going to re-turn it after it dries, leave a 10% wall thickness to allow for warpage and leaves enough to re-shape to round. By all means, get a decent bowl gouge. I started with a WoodRiver (Woodcraft's store brand) 5/8" and added the fingernail grind later. Then after a class at J.C. Campbell, I felt I needed a smaller so I got the same in a 3/8". Good steel that takes a nice edge. I also have a couple carbide tools (Harrison Simple, and EZ). They help get material out of the inside quickly. The Harrison is a cutter, the EZ Wood is a scraper. Tonight, I finished roughing my first hollow form on the G0766 using the EZ Wood tool to carve out the inside. Mainly because I don't have a large hollowing tool yet.

Keep up the good work, and post often.

[Chance Raser]

It amazes me that anyone would bypass a bowl gouge for its designed use to use a skew in a way it was not designed to be used.
Not intending to be flippant in any way with my comment, but why not just learn, or have someone teach you the proper use of a bowl gouge, and advance big time in your stated desire to turn bowls? Food for thought.

I agree with Ken, that most skews won't have the mass of a good scraper.

Roger, thanks for the comments. I need to clear this up tho, my skill is in its infancy and I have zero intention of using a skew on any of my near future bowl turning. This is precisely the reason for asking if I need a skew and if I would be better off grinding my skew into a scraper, as I've also (again in my infancy) had luck and found comfort using a scraper.

Also, I fully intend on figuring out the gouges, but as stated, the out of the box grindings weren't working for me and I was (in great excitement) having a good experience with a scraper.

Maybe I'll leave it as a skew and keep an eye out for a thick scraper. Thanks for the advice.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Chance do not use a skew to turn a bowl, at least not for the next couple of years , by then you should know what can happen with using that tool on a bowl .

Now of course the bowl you show here is made from endgrain, and that is not where a bowl gouge works well on, a scraper is not a bad choice for that.

Endgrain likes to split even more then side-grain wood, but keep your fingers crossed it might well stay in one piece, but for a first piece/bowl you did pretty good, it looks much better than my first one that’s for sure.

For your next one in side grain, try your hand with a bowl gouge on that, and do show us 1thumb.gif

[Chance Raser]

Chance do not use a skew to turn a bowl, at least not for the next couple of years , by then you should know what can happen with using that tool on a bowl .

Now of course the bowl you show here is made from endgrain, and that is not where a bowl gouge works well on, a scraper is not a bad choice for that.

Endgrain likes to split even more then side-grain wood, but keep your fingers crossed it might well stay in one piece, but for a first piece/bowl you did pretty good, it looks much better than my first one that’s for sure.

For your next one in side grain, try your hand with a bowl gouge on that, and do show us <img src="http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=346107"/>

Thanks! I was/am pretty excited about what I was able to produce first time! I'll stay far away from the skew for my bowls.

I'll go side grain next with bowl gouges, but for now fingers crossed it stays together. If not, I can always make another 😀.

[Chance Raser]

That's a nice beginning for a first bowl. What's the wall thickness? If you're going to re-turn it after it dries, leave a 10% wall thickness to allow for warpage and leaves enough to re-shape to round....

Keep up the good work, and post often.

It varies, starts at about 3/8", narrowed to 1/4" and then at the bottom back to 3/8ish. I was trying to get a consistent thickness, but I want really trying if you know what I mean. More of playing around with the tool.

I'll try and reneged the 10% wall thickness rule of thumb. Thanks.

[John K Jordan]

...Do i need a 1" skew for anything right now? i think the NR scraper is the way to go.

Thanks

You can get rid of the skew now, unless you are interested in learning the tool control that will let you turn anything. Bowls are so easy, especially with green wood (and it's a lot of fun!), that many people get started with bowls and do little else the rest of their turning lives. There is nothing wrong with that - this is a hobby after all!

When I started woodturning EVERYONE told me to stay away from the evil skew. But when I read the books I found that the experts were using the skew. (I learned most of my woodturning from books.) My attitude was if they can do it, I can too. Through stubborn determination the skew became one of my favorite tools. I think I keep 6 or 8 on my tool wall an arm's length from the lathe. Some are ground differently but some are duplicates (so I can grab a fresh one instead of stoping to sharpen.)

As others mentioned, the use of the skew in face work (bowls, platters, etc) is limited or even dangerous, as in don't do it! (Except perhaps as a scraper) Same thing with a roughing gouge. However, the skew is invaluable for work between centers.

Many of the better turners all seem to say the same thing: if you want to excel, learn spindle turning first. Read Keith Rowley's foundations book where he doesn't hold back words about this, or Mike Darlow's intro book where he states simply "Spindle turning is the best form of turning to learn first.". Jimmy Clewes, while going from lathe to lathe helping others in a day class on lidded bowls stopped just long enough to tell me "oh, you're a spindle turner, you won't have any problem" and went on to the next guy. Richard Raffan said basically the same thing at one of his demos - learning spindle turning will teach you fine tool control quickly so you can turn anything. Frank Penta told me this too, and I believe it was him who said in the old trade schools face work was not allowed until center work was mastered. You decide.

The skew is the simplest and most basic tool in the kit. When I teach new turners I START with the skew. I mount a rounded 2x2 about 12" long on the lathe, hand the beginner a skew, explain the edge, bevel, and tool rest, then turn the lathe BY HAND until they get the feel for the bevel and how the edge makes a shaving, then turn the lathe on at a slow speed and let them practice planing cuts. Then I demonstrate "the woodturner's dance". A student usually gets pretty good at planing with a skew in about 15-20 minutes. Then we move to the roughing gouge and other tools.

I love spindle turning but don't get me wrong, I love turning bowls and platters too. What I like most is the variety - it is handy to be proficient enough to be comfortable tackling ANY type of turning on a whim. If you might be interested in that, I recommend keeping the skew and learning spindle turning. Mike Darlow's book Fundamentals of Woodturning has some exercises guaranteed to "turn" you into an expert quickly.

One thing about learning with a skew: if the included angle is ground small (say 20-25 deg) the skew cuts better but is harder to learn - a larger angle is much more forgiving. The skew I hand to a beginner is probably ground to about 40-45 deg - I'll have to check.

JKJ

[Reed Gray]

Well, if you are going to be turning bowls, you will need a gouge or three or four, probably a scraper or two, and a negative rake scraper is really handy as well. Two of my NRS's are from old skew chisels. They work just fine. Since they are for fine finish cuts where you just barely touch the surface, you don't need much mass. I think all of mine are 1/4 inch. Heavier scrapers are excellent for heavy bowl roughing. With the smaller size of that bowl, only a small scraper is needed. I haven't found that a scraper over 1 inch wide and 3/8 inch thick is necessary, and they are my go to tool for roughing out bowls. Best advice I can give you is to find the local club and get some hands on instruction. Lots of good videos up on You Tube, but you can't beat hands on. I have a bunch of bowl turning clips up if you type in robo hippy.

robo hippy

[Bob Mezzatesta]

When I was interested in trying a NRS I bought a Benjamin's best scraper from Penn State for $20. It allowed me to experiment with different grind angles and to learn the proper way to use it. For the price you can grind to your hearts content without crying. BTW I'm still using that scraper...works just fine. Practice, practice, practice.

[Chance Raser]

JKJ, thanks for the thoughts. You're responses and posts are always long and thought provoking. I love them. I was trying to think of spindle projects I would like, and as of right now the only thing I can come up with are new handles for my current tools. Good practice and something usable. So that's what I'm gonna do.

Robo, I've already watched most every video you have on YouTube I believe. They are great, super helpful for learning. Thanks.

I was signed up for a bowl turning class at rockler, but my in-laws decided to come to town and crush that plan. I will get back over there and see their new class schedule.

Bob, I am thinking a $20 scraper would suite my needs perfectly right now.

[Ryan Mooney]

JKJ, thanks for the thoughts. You're responses and posts are always long and thought provoking. I love them. I was trying to think of spindle projects I would like, and as of right now the only thing I can come up with are new handles for my current tools. Good practice and something usable. So that's what I'm gonna do.

If you have any gardener friends a mess of dibbles for planting bulbs is a nice project. They're simple, useful, and have just enough opportunity for details to make them fun/good practice. I generally try to get a "finished" surface off of the skew here but sometimes need to dip into the sandpaper a little.

Here's some I did earlier this year (the lines are burned inch marks).

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Some bottle stoppers would make nice xmas gifts.

So do tops (the wind a string around and spin kind).

Eccentric tree ornaments are nice gifts around now and good skew practice: http://www.davidreedsmith.com/articl...ntrictrees.htm

If you have wool spinner friends there are a lot of projects you can do Here are some key words: nostepinne, orifice hook

[Chance Raser]

Those are some great ideas Ryan. I'll look into them, thanks.

So I got to turn again tonight. Same stuff, green mesquite. I went side grain and larger this time. I am beyond happy with the results. There are things I would definitely do differently next time, like the entire concept of the bottom. I wanted to try my Chuck in expansion mode, I regret that decision.

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I really used two tools, my trusty 5/8" scraper and I started to really get a feel for the 1/2" gouge.

The bowl turned out to be 7 3/4" dia x 3" tall.

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I sanded it, learned a lot about sanding, namely how long it takes! From 80 thru the grits to 600. Should I have sanded it or should I have let it dry first? With all the videos I've watched I can't remember if it was OK to sand it or not. Regardless, I couldn't be happier for a second outing. I remember in some of Robo's videos him wrapping a green bowl with packers plastic, i had some, so...

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What do you think? Was the plastic a waste? Was sanding it a waste? How long should I wait to finish it? I have some clear satin on my shelf, use it or???

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