Cyclone vs dust mask

[Maxim Kramarenko]

Hello!

I've read Bill Pentz site recenty, but don't understand one thing. He told, that we need fine dust collection, that chip collection is not enough, so we should always wear dust mask + fan.
OK, suppose I purchase some good cyclone and filter outside, does it change the situation ? It seems, that even with good cyclone, lathe, miter saw and hand (power) tools can create a lot of fine dust, difficult to catch with cyclone. This means, that even with good cyclone we need to wear dust mask all day.

But if dust mask still required, probably it worth to spend money on really good mask (like 3m versaflo) and use basic chip collection ? Wear comfort should be much better and basic ventilation/ceiling air filter should reduce persistent dust level in workshop.

[Ole Anderson]

Keep in mind that the author had some serious respiratory issues and needed to err on the safe side. Unless you have similar issues or are cleaning your filter or sanding without good collection, a dust mask is above and beyond for most folks. Those with higher concerns typically have an ambient filter as well as good collection at the tool.

[David Kumm]

The key is to size the system properly for the machines being used. A system undersized may still pick up the chips but not the envelope of fine dust around the machine. You also need to leave the collector on long enough to clear the air in the shop. An overhead clears air pretty slowly. A properly sized DC will do it much faster. Keep in mind that if venting outside, the replacement air needs to be clean too. Dave

[Maxim Kramarenko]

David, ok, suppose cheap undersized system doesn't pick fine dust. But why I should worry about it, if I wear a dust mask all day ? Let's fine dust fly, an overhead system will clean air in a few hours anyway.
It seems like both with cyclone and with basic chip collection system I should wear a dust mask all day, so why I should worry about the cyclone, cfm, filtering outside, etc ?

[David Kumm]

I'm just one who doesn't find a cartridge type mask very comfortable for long periods. Even my Trend isn't comfortable when the shield gets dusty and it always seems to be something I'm aware of. I don't need any more distraction as my attention span is short. Dave

[Jim Dwight]

I think Bill Pentz's level of protection is more than I need and possibly more than you need. If you search "Dylos" in this forum you will find test results of others in their shops under various conditions. What I learned is that our shops are not necessarily dustier than outside and if we use dust collection may not be dustier than inside our houses. If you don't need a dust mask outside on windy days you shouldn't need one in your shop either. I think we should collect as much as possible at the source, either direct the exhaust outside or use a really fine - like HEPA - filter. What's left should be something a lot of us can deal with. Opening the doors to get some air movement will help too. If you think you need more, my next step would be a box fan with a fine furnace filter on it, not a mask.

[Maxim Kramarenko]

Aha, so ultimate goal is to work in the shop without mask ?

Regading Dylos - I've tried the such testing myself with this arduino dust sensor:
http://www.howmuchsnow.com/arduino/airquality/
and this cheap particle counter:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Handheld-Por...gAAOSwFe5XywWa
I've also don't found any extreme numbers, often shop is much cleaner, than house

[Ben Rivel]

First of all, why NOT do all things and everything you can to collect all the dust AND protect yourself from it. Second I like a clean shop. Having a good cyclone and dust collection system drastically helps that. And lastly, dust from outside or in your house hopefully doesnt contain any particles that can be and/or are unsafe to breathe like some of those found in some of the wood products we cut. Take MDF for example. Personally I use a nice dust collection system, with an air cleaner and a respirator when I work. Just like I wear double ear protection when I shoot. Nothing wrong with taking extra precautions when its to do with my well being. I cant see any reason to do anything less.

[Van Huskey]

I'm just one who doesn't find a cartridge type mask very comfortable for long periods. Even my Trend isn't comfortable when the shield gets dusty and it always seems to be something I'm aware of. I don't need any more distraction as my attention span is short. Dave

I have to agree about wearing a mask. I will suffer through it while spraying finish or other times when dealing with organic solvents but if I had to do it all the time when cutting or sanding I am pretty sure I would shift my time to other hobbies.

[Brian W Smith]

" I will suffer through it while spraying finish or other times when dealing with organic solvents but if I had to do it all the time when cutting or sanding I am pretty sure I would shift my time to other hobbies."

Yes,and we found that learning/practicing sheet metal "trades" became a bargain.From rolling our own fittings to building ground up cyclones including impellors.For instance,can make a std 6x6x4 20g wye in any angle or offset in under 15 minutes.We've even created new styles of QD systems.Of all the "offshoot" or extension's to our wood/cabinet biz over the last 40+ years,by far..sheet metal was the quickest payback.It is a high labor (skillsets),with small to medium $$ for equipment.The latter of which,interestingly,has one of the highest resale values.Our vintage Pexto "stuff" is worth more than when it was purchased.As new,and as we restored each pce.

There's enough public domain info and technical books written in the late 1800's and early 1900's to easily cover pretty much any dust equipment needed for OSHA level safety in the WW'n biz.Written also before a time when industry equipment becomes the norm....translated;lots of hand tools.Also,without condescension,written in easy to understand basic math and geometry.Which should be a foundation block in any WWers learning curve anyway.I know it's practice (layout/theory) bumped my knowledge base...and having grown up in the biz,that's sayin a lot.

[Wayne Lomman]

Maxim, there is a widely accepted hierarchy of control methods for dealing with safety issues generally (google it). Using personal protective equipment is the last resort when trying to control a hazard. Installing duct collection is an engineering solution that will give a much better result. Dust masks are a pain to wear and don't always fit - I have a large nose apparently because absolutely no brand of mask works for me. They give you head aches from the pressure on your face, they restrict vision and the weight of a decent one give you neck strain.

Don't under-rate the long term effects of exposure to dusty atmospheres. Everyone worries about their airways and with good reason, but did you know that your eyes get abraded? No, I didn't either until I went to the eye doctor for a check up and was advised to choose a less dusty occupation. Just what you want to hear when you are too old to get picked up in another occupation and too young to retire.

So just install an efficient dust collector and leave the mask for the odd occasion when you need something extra. Cheers

[glenn bradley]

I wear a mask any time that I am doing a task that generates dust that cannot be adequately captured. A lot of freehand routing falls under this category but, not all. Probably the biggest offender in my shop is hand sanding.

If you are using a cyclone and venting outside, the cyclone primarily serves as a separator so that you can capture the bulk of your spoil. This is great for all things that the cyclone does a good job of collecting. As you mention, miter saws create a collection problem. They are of minimal benefit in my wood working and mine lives out in the shed and only comes out to play if I am trimming out a room or something like that.

Lathes are another problem tool for collection if you are not a green turner. Folks who turn green wood do most of their spoil collection with a broom (or a rake ). Hand tools that are not equipped with dust collection require a mask. Hand tools that have dust collection that cannot be used due to the task being performed require a mask. Again, in my shop, rasp work and hand sanding are the ones that sneak up on me. I will be going at it and then catch a cross-room view of the air and go get the mask I should've been wearing the whole time .

If your mask is not comfortable for long periods, get one that is. Even if the mask is expensive it is cheap compared to a lifetime of respiratory issues. DAMHIKT. This is my current favorite since they stopped making my ultimate favorite (thanks to 3M after buying AO ). Anyway, for me the Miller LPR-100 goes on and off easily, is lightweight, doesn't block peripheral vision and can be work for extended periods.

[Maxim Kramarenko]

Thanks for directions, I found this review of respirator field testing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workpl...8.D0.90-OSHA-7

It seems like respirators (even PAPR) is not reliable enough, often respirator reduce dust concentration just a few times, so using other ways to remove dust should be always useful.

[Allan Speers]

I have a "pretty good" shop DC system, but I still wear a simple surgical-type mask whenever I actually remember to do so. I like the type that is rectangular in shape with loops on the sides for each ear. These are extremely comfortable, not a pain at all. I even wear them when raking leaves or mowing the lawn.

Such a mask isn't a good solution all by itself, far from it, but it's really all you need for MILD airborne sawdust, so why NOT wear one?

[Alan Lightstone]

As I've said before, I'm fond of my lungs, and would like to keep them relatively intact.

I have a 5HP Oneida Cyclone, and a Jet air cleaner, and a Dylos meter. Plus have a wide variety of Festool tools with their Festool HEPA vac. I religiously wear either a 3M P100 particle mask or chemical mask (as the task requires) until the Dylos reads normal ambient particle count. And yes, the air scrubs cleaner than the house when the Jet is on.

I don't find the mask terribly annoying (though I work all day in the OR wearing a mask, so I'm pretty used to wearing some form of mask). Frankly, I find ear muffs far more annoying.

I see plenty of patients every week with bad respiratory conditions. It's not fun for them. It's lifelong suffering and disability. See that a few times, and the mask/air cleaner/good dust collector starts sounding like a great game plan.

My $0.02