A new player in the steel spined 14" bandsaw game

[Van Huskey]

This has sparked my interest a bit. I was really wanting the 513X2BF but I don't currently have a shop set up with 220 and I'm not sure when that will happen down the road, so I'd like to just get some of my essential tools to get started at least. I was leaning towards picking up the 555X 14" since it is still a reasonably heavy duty 14" and I figured it would do the job for now and allow me to get right to work with it now. This new option would give me the resaw capacity I was looking for with the 17" and still allow me to use it with a 110 outlet. I just have to wrap my head around whether I would want to spend just $75 shy of the 17" that I wanted originally. Or if I should really just stick with the 555X at almost half the price and just upgrade to a 17" later. Decisions decisions.

Thats a tough place to be, trying to work now and future proof at the same time. My suggestion would be to pick up a used saw, it won't take much looking to find a usable 14" Delta/cast clone to tide you over and you are likely to be able to get most or all of your money back out of it. CL can be great if you are patient, I post great deals on bandsaws from all over the country in the Deals forum. There is a gorgeous 20" Yates Y-120 for $250 in Connecticut that honestly would be worth the drive for you, even considering gas and tuning up the Yates it is still a better saw and saves a chunk of change, even if you had to rent a U-haul.

The other option would be to buy a 513X2F and change out the motor starter and cord and wire it for 120v now and you can switch back later if you care to. Grizzly charges about $175 (IIRC) for motor starter but you can find them cheaper. You will need a 20 amp circuit and assuming you do it will need to be a 20 amp receptacle (instead of the usual 15a duplex) but that is a 10 minute fix.

[Myk Rian]

As a bandsaw geek, I have my ways...

That doesn't tell us anything.

[Van Huskey]

That doesn't tell us anything.

That was by design.

By the time it was ask Grizzly had posted the info so I felt no need to provide annotations of my sources, that and you know the whole international bandsaw man of mystery thing my alter-ego thinks it has going.

[Rick Cicciarelli]

Thats a tough place to be, trying to work now and future proof at the same time. My suggestion would be to pick up a used saw, it won't take much looking to find a usable 14" Delta/cast clone to tide you over and you are likely to be able to get most or all of your money back out of it. CL can be great if you are patient, I post great deals on bandsaws from all over the country in the Deals forum. There is a gorgeous 20" Yates Y-120 for $250 in Connecticut that honestly would be worth the drive for you, even considering gas and tuning up the Yates it is still a better saw and saves a chunk of change, even if you had to rent a U-haul.

The other option would be to buy a 513X2F and change out the motor starter and cord and wire it for 120v now and you can switch back later if you care to. Grizzly charges about $175 (IIRC) for motor starter but you can find them cheaper. You will need a 20 amp circuit and assuming you do it will need to be a 20 amp receptacle (instead of the usual 15a duplex) but that is a 10 minute fix.

The other way to approach this question would be to simply ask, what benefits would 513X2BF have over this new 14" Grizzly saw? Slightly larger throat, another inch of table width, and the ability to put a 1" blade vs 3/4" on the 14". Doesn't seem like there is really much advantage of the 17" unless I am missing something.

[Van Huskey]

The other way to approach this question would be to simply ask, what benefits would 513X2BF have over this new 14" Grizzly saw? Slightly larger throat, another inch of table width, and the ability to put a 1" blade vs 3/4" on the 14". Doesn't seem like there is really much advantage of the 17" unless I am missing something.

This is sorta in keeping with what I have said before about the Grizzly bandsaw line it is packed with options between about $500 and $2000. Often there is significant overlap and it also makes it easy to start up the ladder with a $900 saw and after you do the process of "well for $100 more I get this and that" you end up buying a $1600 saw. This is unusual for machine manufacturers but it seems to work for Grizzly and though it allows their customers to have more choice it also induces paralysis by analysis. I personally need to get hands on with the new saw before I can speculate about the strengths and weaknesses of each saw. My guess this class of saw sells well since in most other cases the price jump to the next size in a manufacturers line is bigger.

[Greg Peterson]

I thought one of the limitations of the 14" BS is resaw thickness and width of blade. Wider blades prefer a larger radius wheel.
Looking at Timber Wolf they do not appear to offer a blade wider than 1/2" (.025 thickness) for the 14" BS.
I'll defer to your knowledge of the matter Van. I'M sure theris is a negligible matter or at least there are blades that meet this need.

[Van Huskey]

I thought one of the limitations of the 14" BS is resaw thickness and width of blade. Wider blades prefer a larger radius wheel.
Looking at Timber Wolf they do not appear to offer a blade wider than 1/2" (.025 thickness) for the 14" BS.
I'll defer to your knowledge of the matter Van. I'M sure theris is a negligible matter or at least there are blades that meet this need.

While it is true that there is a cutoff for the thickness of a blade and the diameter of a bandsaw wheel the tensioning ability of the saw is more likely to be the limitation than the thickness as long as one is using a blade with a flexible backer, the ones discusssed around here are almost exclusively that type. There is a higher chance of fatigue cracks due to the higher flexing of a band on a 14" wheel but you really don't see that much anymore with a wider number of flexible bands available than years ago.

The lighter weight 17/18" saws may not have more tensioning ability (or possibly less in some cases) than one of the heavier 14" saws. While guide and while width also come into play with the type/size of blade one can use if one is using a bi-metal or carbide blade (which are by far the most economical for resawing) tension is almost always the limiting factor not the guides or the wheel width or diameter.


In the end if one wants to use a particular blade type, width and thickness you almost have to compare machine to machine and not machine class to machine class. The reality is there is a wide variation of capabilities within a wheel size and these capabilities often overlap across bandsaw size classes. There are 14" saws capable of getting the most out of a particular blade that some 18" saws can not. While weight isn't everything consider Grizzly sells a 17" 513 that is only 266 pounds so I suspect this new 14" saw at 319# will be stiffer and as long as it has an adequate spring will be able to tension a wider and/or thicker blade than the 513ANV.

[Curt Harms]

If the someone isn't on parole/probabtion and isn't concerned about a little police interaction then they can let me know up front... The guides and better fence are the primary differences between the 325 and 326, both are nice but the old Rikon guides were the saws weak spot and I dislike guides that require tools (which the subject of this thread requires tools), the new guides have made a big difference in my opinion of the Rikon 14 and 18" saws that got them.

For grins I checked on retrofitting the new style guides to a 10-325. They're selling a retrofit kit - 10-900 for $150.99 from one source.

[Rick Cicciarelli]

Well here is an issue. The new G0817 saw specs state that it takes a 120" blade up to 3/4" wide. Looking at Grizzly's website, there are only 3 blades that are 120 inches, all are closeout, and all are 1". So it appears one deciding factor in going with this new 14" saw is that there are extremely limited options for blades. That in itself would be worth the swing towards a 17" for an additional $75 and a large increase in blade options.

[Keith Hankins]

I've hd my G0513 for over 10 years now. I went and compared that to the 817 and noticed something. As far as height its 2" taller capacity, obviously much smaller on L/R of blade. It does have the Cast Iron wheels and trunions. However, my trunions/wheels have never ever been an issue and I've put some big boy pieces up there to cut. It will give you more, but marketably more, I doubt. Put a good blade on it and no issues.

After looking at it If you have only one bandsaw that must do it all then this would be a nice option. However, I found over the years that I hated the change over and tuning required from goin to thin blades for small stuff to the Laguna carbide blade for resaw. While more expensive that the 17" presents options.

For me I set my 513 up for resaw and bought a 1934 delta 14" for the small stuff and never looked back. (200$)

Anyway it looks like a nice saw, but I'd look for an old piece of American Iron first.

If you not into that then it looks neat.

[Van Huskey]

Well here is an issue. The new G0817 saw specs state that it takes a 120" blade up to 3/4" wide. Looking at Grizzly's website, there are only 3 blades that are 120 inches, all are closeout, and all are 1". So it appears one deciding factor in going with this new 14" saw is that there are extremely limited options for blades. That in itself would be worth the swing towards a 17" for an additional $75 and a large increase in blade options.

I am about to go on a rant, but it isn't directed at you.. If a person is buying their blades from a place that buys them pre-welded and sells them boxed or shrink-wrapped on carboard or in any other fashion that indicates they were not welding by the one selling them, they are overpaying. Find a place that welds their own blades to length, they exist almost everywhere and there are some great ones online as well, a few examples are Spectrum Supply, Woodcraftbands and Iturra Design. The key is none of these places car if you need a 120", 93.5" or 279 1/2" band. Band size is never a limiting factor with a bandsaw. Rant over. As a follow on to this here is a thread where I posted a short primer on bandsaw blades, I am pretty sure I touched on the band size issue. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...bandsaw-blades!

[Van Huskey]

I've hd my G0513 for over 10 years now. I went and compared that to the 817 and noticed something. As far as height its 2" taller capacity, obviously much smaller on L/R of blade. It does have the Cast Iron wheels and trunions. However, my trunions/wheels have never ever been an issue and I've put some big boy pieces up there to cut. It will give you more, but marketably more, I doubt. Put a good blade on it and no issues.

After looking at it If you have only one bandsaw that must do it all then this would be a nice option. However, I found over the years that I hated the change over and tuning required from goin to thin blades for small stuff to the Laguna carbide blade for resaw. While more expensive that the 17" presents options.

For me I set my 513 up for resaw and bought a 1934 delta 14" for the small stuff and never looked back. (200$)

Anyway it looks like a nice saw, but I'd look for an old piece of American Iron first.

If you not into that then it looks neat.

Probably the biggest area the new saw may beat the 513 series is frame deflection but it is hard to say without actually measuring both saws, if this is the case and the spring is capable of more pressure then the 14" saw will be able to tension a wider/thicker blade correctly. This is just a guess at this point but is usually the case with bandsaws built with resawing in mind.

Personally, I think 3-4 bandsaw is the best choice for a shop but then I have bandsaws on the brain. There is no question that some of the best bandsaws have been built in the US and Europe, mainly Italy. One can still buy some US made saws (but the prices are extreme) and Europe still makes a bunch but for a lot of people either finding used saws is too much of a pain or they don't want to deal with the issues that can come with used. I have owned a stupid number of bandsaws and VERY rarely have any of them been bought new, but there are a lot of people that buy new saws (otherwise I wouldn't be able to buy used ones).

While there is a lot of overlap between the 14" and 17/18" classes in terms of price, quality and capacity it just helps people find Goldilocks.

Your 1934 is probably a Delta 890, one of the very early "grandparents" of todays 14" cast saws, no question the most copied of any bandsaw sold in the US. Those along with the heavier Powermatic, Walker Turner and 15" General make excellent second saws, my favorite is the PM141 since it is much beefier but harder to find than the old Deltas and commands a premium price in the marketplace so you have to get lucky to get a good one, the farther north one lives the better chance they have to get one of the excellent General saws.

All that said the saw that is the focus of the thread has more capacity than these saws and is (will be) avaiable new with a warranty which a lot of people prefer.

[Van Huskey]

For grins I checked on retrofitting the new style guides to a 10-325. They're selling a retrofit kit - 10-900 for $150.99 from one source.

I "think" from my conversation with them at IWF that $159 is the list price. They are certainly better than the previous ones which was the weak spot on their saws. The one thing I will say is the bearings look almost comically large on a 14" saw. Nothing really practically wrong with it but from a theoretical POV it does move the bearing surface farther away from the wood.

[Rick Cicciarelli]

I am about to go on a rant, but it isn't directed at you.. If a person is buying their blades from a place that buys them pre-welded and sells them boxed or shrink-wrapped on carboard or in any other fashion that indicates they were not welding by the one selling them, they are overpaying. Find a place that welds their own blades to length, they exist almost everywhere and there are some great ones online as well, a few examples are Spectrum Supply, Woodcraftbands and Iturra Design. The key is none of these places car if you need a 120", 93.5" or 279 1/2" band. Band size is never a limiting factor with a bandsaw. Rant over. As a follow on to this here is a thread where I posted a short primer on bandsaw blades, I am pretty sure I touched on the band size issue. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...bandsaw-blades!

Actually I didn't know that purchasing a custom made blade was even an option, let alone the preferred practice. Good to know. And thanks for the awesome link on blades.
In your experience with Grizzly saws have you found that their specs for max blade size run true? Can one assume this saw will be able to properly tension the 3/4" blade they say it can handle?

[Van Huskey]

Actually I didn't know that purchasing a custom made blade was even an option, let alone the preferred practice. Good to know. And thanks for the awesome link on blades.
In your experience with Grizzly saws have you found that their specs for max blade size run true? Can one assume this saw will be able to properly tension the 3/4" blade they say it can handle?

In most cases bandsaw blades bought from retailers have at least one more middleman in the chain so prices are almost laways higher and the selection of blade stock is often lower.

With the blade width question you have opened (possibly unwittingly) a huge kettle of fish.

First, most bandsaw manufacturers state the upper blade capacity width on the widest blade possible to snake onto the wheels and the guides can handle. Often the very largest blade a saw "says" it can take is a pain to actually get on and off the saw depending on the path it must take. That said I would expect the 3/4" width maximum to be conservative on a saw like this and will probably go on without much trouble, but that remains to be seen.

The second issue is what width blade can a particular saw tension properly, since it matters not if you can physically put on and track a 2" blade, for example, is the saw can't tension it properly for use. Further, a blade is not a two dimensional object so the thickness of the blade is also as important as the width when it comes to how much tension a saw can put on the blade since area is what is important with strain, not width alone. So a saw may provide adequate tension for a 3/4" x .025" blade but not be able to tension a 3/4" x .035" blade since the cross section is roughly 40% greater and therefore needs roughly 40% more spring pressure to reach the same tension as the .025" gauge blade. This is compounded further by the fact some blade require more tension to be optimized, a carbide tipped blade will most likely be beat at 25,000-30,000 psi of tension where a carbon blade will work the best at around 15,000 psi of tension. So a 3/4" x .035" carbide blade will need a LOT more spring pressure and thus frame rigidity compared to a 3/4" x .022" carbon blade since the spring pressure will need to be nearly double to tension the cabide blade.

So to answer your question you need to know how practical it is to mount and dismount a 3/4" blade on the saw and then if it can tension a specific 3/4" blade. manufacturers of hobby to light industrial saws do not provide this information, it has to be determined by measuring a saw or using it and getting and educated guess by experience. My guess is this saw will work fine with all carbon blades and all but the thickest bi-metal and carbide tipped blades, but it is good practice to avoid the thickest bi-metal and carbide blades on 14" saws. With Grizzly saws like all the other manufactures you really have to take a hard look at the saw and tension spring area to get a guess. The 14" Delta cast clone saws from most every manufacturer list a 3/4" blade max, while you can usually get it on and off even a thinner gauge carbon steel blade is going to be under-tensioned on every one I have ever measured, this includes ones with aftermarket higher spring rate springs (which one must be careful with). Just looking at what I can see of the specs and in the pictures I expect this saw to be able to tension the thinner carbide and bi-metal blades properly, whether it can on the mid-thickness ones is a question but I would avoid those on a 14" wheel in any case.