Sawstop accidental safety trip

[Chris Fournier]

Anyone who thinks he will never make a mistake is living in an alternate reality.

Mike

As stated I would agree with you Mike but your statement needs some qualification to be useful. We are talking about the use of a tablesaw here and personally when I am using a tablesaw my attention to detail and process goes WAAAAAY up compared to when I am using a hammer. Ironically I am more likely to hurt myself with a less dangerous instrument than the tablesaw because my guard is down and I am not on "high alert".

I don't mean this to be smug but anyone who has set off their SS because they touched the rotating blade with their body or measuring/layout tools really likely should own a SS. It will save them. I just wonder what machine in their shop without this technology will be the one to injure or maim them.

I hope that we all can enjoy woodworking safely for as long as we want to work wood!

[Frederick Skelly]

no doubt, a mans safety is crucible, & very important. I don't condemn the fella that thinks he's saving his fingers & no misfires at a $6000 price tag. It still comes back to the fact of getting to know your equipment. I can do just as much, just as safe on my 8" Craftsman w/no guards, as can be done on the ss. But, I know my machine, try to plan my cuts out carefully, & think them through.

It's a proven fact that the ts is one of the most dangerous pieces of equipment in our shops, regardless of its size. But the injuries can be prevented with knowledge, planning, & a little extra time to trust the saw.

Well Brad, I hear ya. And maybe you're right for you.

In my shop, there's always a chance that my mind might wander for a moment despite my best effort, or that a loud car/truck comes by at the wrong moment and distracts me, or that sawing releases an unexpected stress in the wood causing a bind, etc.

I agree that knowing your machine, proper prep and safe tool operation can reduce the chances. I don't agree that every injury can be prevented. My experience just hasn't seen that.

Does reducing that risk further make a sawstop " worth it"? That's a personal call.

Fred

[Andrew J. Coholic]

No one is infallible. You spend enough hours doing anything, and as safe as you can, you can err and become a statistic.

I am 46. Never had a machinery accident where I was cut. I have about 60,000 plus hours in the shop working daily with industrial machinery. I don't kid myself. It can happen tomorrow.

It cant ever happen to me... only if you never go into the shop.

Thats my opinion...

[Mike Henderson]

As stated I would agree with you Mike but your statement needs some qualification to be useful. We are talking about the use of a tablesaw here and personally when I am using a tablesaw my attention to detail and process goes WAAAAAY up compared to when I am using a hammer. Ironically I am more likely to hurt myself with a less dangerous instrument than the tablesaw because my guard is down and I am not on "high alert".

I don't mean this to be smug but anyone who has set off their SS because they touched the rotating blade with their body or measuring/layout tools really likely should own a SS. It will save them. I just wonder what machine in their shop without this technology will be the one to injure or maim them.

I hope that we all can enjoy woodworking safely for as long as we want to work wood!

We are all human and we all make mistakes. If you think you'll never make a mistake you're living in an alternate reality. No qualifications necessary.

Mike

[The only way you can be sure you'll never make a mistake on a table saw is if you never use a table saw.]

[Ben Rivel]

I asked the guy from Forest about fixing a blade. He said no, a bad idea, and they do not repair saw stopped blades.

The most interesting thing in the thread that Forest will not fix a blade that has been in a Sawstop incident. This is most likely due to liability and difficulty in detecting any damage to the brake joint.

Agreed! I did not know that and that sucks. I thought I remembered reading that they used to repair them, so Im wondering if this is something recently they decided not to do anymore.

[Chris Fournier]

Lot's of long time, retired, or dead woodworkers who never put their hands or tools into the path of a moving tablesaw blade Mike.

I've made mistakes on the TS, just none that involved me putting my hands into the blade, I'm not lucky or gifted just informed and careful.

Pieces cut too short twice? Yeah, some of those on record in my shop!

[Mike Henderson]

Lot's of long time, retired, or dead woodworkers who never put their hands or tools into the path of a moving tablesaw blade Mike.

I've made mistakes on the TS, just none that involved me putting my hands into the blade, I'm not lucky or gifted just informed and careful.

Pieces cut too short twice? Yeah, some of those on record in my shop!

Lot's of long time, retired, or dead woodworkers cut their finger off or otherwise incurred serious injury (and I'm sure none of them intended to do so). You can say that you "think" you'll never make a mistake on a table saw that results in injury but anyone who believes he'll never make a mistake is living in an alternate reality.

Mike

[Kevin Groenke]

Question for Sawstop owners. How many times are you willing to pay the $150 fine? Has anyone yet disconnected the safety feature?

We have over two dozen accidental trips since 2005 in our higher ed student shop (+3 legit human contact trips). I wouldn't consider disabling the detection/stopping mechanism.

[Rich Riddle]

Considering it a $150 fine is a good mentality. I fired the Bosch REAXX this year when first using it. Fortunately, the fine for the REAXX is $50 since it doesn't destroy the blade. At least your fingers were safe.

[Simon MacGowen]

Really, the point is not if a TS accident will happen to EVERY woodworker, but TS accidents will 100% happen -- just not to 100% of the woodworkers. Those who count themselves among the group that a TS accident will never happen to them are lucky folks. I have been lucky so far, but I still go for a SawStop.

If statistics means anything, the majority of serious woodworking accidents that require a trip to the ER are from the use of saws (including bandsaws, circular saws and tablesaws). No one will dispute that TS injuries are among the most devastating kind. If brake technology were available to all other kinds of saws and machines, I would be willing to spend the extra $, even though I would continue to observe all the humanly possible safety precaution and measures.

I consider a trigger that would cost you not only the cartridge but also the blade a desirable thing. Like a traffic fine, if it hits you hard in the wallet, it is more deterrent. That's just human (or economics).

Just because some retired, old or dead persons who smoked and never got lung cancer, I would not consider smoking (first hand or second hand safe) for my lungs. Just because folks in the rural areas or farms don't wear their seatbelts, I don't feel safer when I am behind the steering wheel....

I would not push anyone to get a SawStop -- even money is not a factor to them -- nor would I preach that as long as you observe all the safety measures and pay attention when using the TS, you would not be in an accident. The two groups could live happily in their own shops ... until the day an accident strikes, of course.

Simon
P.S. All my local school shops have replaced every saw with a SS (professional model) and some 15 years later, no graduates from the system have come back and sued the school district, saying they were not taught how to use a non-SS safely. I think SS owners and users need not explain or defend their SS decisions any more than a Festool owner who spends 30% to 100% more on the same kind of tool that is available under a different brand.

[Chris Fournier]

Lot's of long time, retired, or dead woodworkers cut their finger off or otherwise incurred serious injury (and I'm sure none of them intended to do so). You can say that you "think" you'll never make a mistake on a table saw that results in injury but anyone who believes he'll never make a mistake is living in an alternate reality.

Mike

Fair enough then Mike, I do not own a SS and I have never been to the Emergency Room to treat a woodworking accident. I am content with my alternate reality.

I would wish the same track record for everyone but know that it is not possible. If the SS prevents you from harm in your shop then I agree that you should be happy to own one! Be safe!

[Martin Wasner]

Shouldn't you test the brake once in a while just to make sure it's not defective?

[Cliff Polubinsky]

The most interesting thing in the thread that Forest will not fix a blade that has been in a Sawstop incident. This is most likely due to liability and difficulty in detecting any damage to the brake joint.

That hasn't been my experience. They repaired one of my blades a few months ago. When I talked to them on the phone I told them it was a Sawstop hit and also included that on the info letter sent with the blade. They didn't have a problem with it.

Cliff

[Brad Barnhart]

If you don't own a ss, & continue to argue the point that the fella who thinks he'll never have a ts accident lives in an alternate reality. In my first post, I didn't say anything about "never" having a ts accident, or the anticipation of one. I'm not going to sit here & tell you I've not made mistakes on the the ts, because I don't see the need to deal with your misinterpretation of my post.

The fact of the matter is, if a feller feels he's safer using a ss, it's ok. His money, his shop. But all it takes is one injury, & it creates a fear of the machine. And that is not an alternate reality. It's reality!

Now, my budget in reality will not allow that kind of money for a saw, so I learn to use my table saw as safely as possible, & get to know what it will do so I can make the decision whether or not to use the ts, or another saw for the job at hand. This reduces injuries, & helps to get the job done safely. In reality.

[Kevin Groenke]

Shouldn't you test the brake once in a while just to make sure it's not defective?

The SawStop system goes through a self-test routine every time the power cycles on. If the cartridge (which contains the microprocessor controlling everything) is defective, the saw will not start. In 10+ years and 30+ cartridges, I recall this happening once and SawStop sent a replacement asap with few questions asked.