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Thread: Coarse, Medium, Fine DVD

  1. #31
    If you like, you can post the pic and a pic of the jar of vaseline and I can smear it myself. I'm a diy kinda guy

  2. #32
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    Like the attitude

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Haydon View Post
    Mass produced metal planes started to gain traction towards the latter part of the 19th century. After 1850 machines such as planers, band saws, circular saws and mortise machines were normal and put the furniture being made within the reach of a much wider market. At that point much of the skills and understanding of how to prepare wood effectively by hand starts to disappear.
    IMO this may confuse correlation with causality. You're right that hand preparation from rough-sawn declined at roughly the same time as metal planes became popular. That's a correlation, and only a correlation.

    You appear to go further and imply that the reduced need to prepare rough stock is what caused metal planes to become popular, if I'm interpreting your argument correctly. IMO that causal relationship is very unlikely. A far more reasonable and defensible interpretation is that the technological changes associated with the industrial revolution enabled both machine finishing of wood and economical manufacturing of metal planes. Metal planes were available before that, but their costs were such that only the most well-heeled craftspeople could afford them.
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 11-13-2016 at 2:24 PM.

  4. #34
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    On the current project I am working on....rough sawn Cherry needed resawn down to 1/2" thick stock. Then a cambered jack plane was used to remove all the saw marks, and try to flatten the pieces. Followed up with a straight-edged #5-1/4 ( pieces were about a 1' long) to smooth out the dips from the cambered iron. Then a #3 sized smooth plane to finish the job.

    Coarse, medium, and fine......

    I do have a Stanley #31 as a jointer, an Ohio Tool Co. No. 81 as the Try plane. There is an Ohio Tool Co. No, 035 for use as a smoother....if I should ever decide to go that route. I generally size the planes used to the size of the work being done....makes zero sense to use a Stanley No. 7c on a board or panel that is barely over a foot long.

  5. #35
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    Patrick it is not just a correlation, it's part of a more industrial way of work. Before 1850 hand tool work was at the zenith of it's practice and it had evolved into wooden planes with double irons. If we follow the path of the metal plane from it's emergence to now, perhaps the zenith of power tool work, we find ourselves with a bias towards heavy, industrially perfect tools with thick irons of hard steel with no lamination. Perhaps good for use like an infill, a few passes of a smoothing plane perhaps. The metal planes that were available before mass produced items were pretty much just infills. These were not well suited to the requirements of timber prep just as heavy modern planes are not well suited now.

    One thing I do find amusing, especially with the long modern metal try and jointer planes, is they must nearly always used to refine an edge off a power jointer. If I were in that situation I would spend a bit more time learning to set up my power jointer or invest more money into buying a better one. I've worked in a professional woodworking shop for just shy of 20 years. I've yet to find the need to refine an edge off a power jointer before glue up.

    The only way to settle this would be with the aid of a time machine. I'd wager that if I were to offer a pre-industrial woodworker a modern jack, try/jointer and smoother the only one I might expect them to keep hold of is the #4 pattern bailey with a thin iron.

  6. If I were a complete noob to the ways of the plane and the hand, this would not be a thread that would do me a lick of good. 35 posts and nothing of use, except a variety of opinions on the esoterica of wood working and history of this and that. Chances are, like me who is a lot closer to the beginning of the adventure than to a high level of expertise, this would be noise and no substance. I have CS's book, and after reading it I did not go out and buy a #5, a #4, and a #7, but what I did begin to understand is that depending on the condition of the work at hand different tools that have some similarity have different purpose. So the beginning of wisdom is understanding some basics.

    Not all wood is created equal, even if two pieces of the same species are right next to each other on the BORG or lumber yard shelf. I know some people love, from experience, iron and some wood and some transitional. Some can do anything with a #4 and a stone for honing. Some can do amazing work with a whole room of the most expensive, or the most vintage of tools. Many of you have had decades of experience and are amazing talents, others like me are pretty new. Guys like CS, Roy, Paul, Graham, and others give me a great deal of inspiration and even without realizing it - encouragement to keep going.

    I have some old planes, some old chisels, some really crappy things that were my Dad's or Uncle's but were worth every minute cleaning up and trying to make useful again. And every minute of that part of my journey has shown me and taught me what hand tool work is all about, and I have much more to learn. I've watched the power tool and juggling jig guys on TV and You Tube, and I've watched the American Workshop guy with a gorgeous set of hand tools, who uses power tools almost exclusively because he makes furniture for a living. I get it. I get it that there are a thousand ways to do the same thing, and I get that not everyone prefers the same way or the same tool set.

    But, I've never seen so much confusion and so many fragile egos, so much ado about not very much.

    Please keep in mind that your audience is other than yourselves, and the range of skills in that audience is pretty broad.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Glendening View Post
    If I were a complete noob to the ways of the plane and the hand, this would not be a thread that would do me a lick of good. 35 posts and nothing of use, except a variety of opinions on the esoterica of wood working and history of this and that.
    No, after your contribution it's 36 posts and nothing of use. Esoterica and history beat content-free blather in my book.

  8. #38
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    Brief comment; got to luv those that have a lot to say about the fine art of woodwork, and yet when it comes to forwarding photo's of their own work, they get all weak at the knees and don't deliver. Verbal vs practical experience.

    regards Stewie;
    Last edited by Stewie Simpson; 11-13-2016 at 9:12 PM.

  9. #39
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    Coarse
    cambered jack.jpg
    Medium..
    face planed.jpg
    and fine..
    smooth plane.jpg
    Small boards of Cherry calls for smaller planes..
    three planes.jpg
    As I size the planes to the work being done.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chase View Post
    No, after your contribution it's 36 posts and nothing of use. Esoterica and history beat content-free blather in my book.

    Make that 37 ... sheesh. I don't have your skills, but I'm trying to learn.

  11. #41
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    John, sorry if the discussion has become wayward. I quite enjoy having a conversation about things of this matter and find few places to do so .

  12. #42
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    Graham; appreciate the element of historic precedence within your posts.

    Stewie;

  13. #43
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    John, there is little forgiveness for noobs like us. What I do is to learn a little and then go use it. Then I go back and learn why that failed and I've learned a little more. I like longer planes. I have one of Tom's precision ground 608 roundside as well as one of his # 4s. I use a Veritas BU #7 with fence to "final" my edges for glue-up. I could/can do them without assistance but it takes too long for my current skillset. I absolutely love My M-W #6 (bought it new for $15 in 1974. Took 30 years for me to acquire the learnings of how to treat it and sharpen/hone the iron. Anyway, once you have learned that sharp fixes almost everything having to do with a plane - go forth and do it your way until that does not work anymore. Then come back and learn some more. I've found that I learned more from just picking up a plane and trying to make shavings. When I could not, I asked questions (I no longer have much of an ego.) Specific questions tend to elicit specific answers. Such as: why does the plane do X when I expected Y generally get answered satisfactorily. Complaints about signal to noise ratio will inevitably up the noise component.

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