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Thread: 3 Waterlox questions

  1. #1
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    3 Waterlox questions

    I know there are a hundred different ways to apply finish and everyone has their favorites. I haven't used waterlox before but I'm about to start finishing a heart pine table- and it will be our everyday kitchen table, so it needs some durability. I've used Sutherlands Polymerized Tung oil (PTO) on our dining room table and love it but I need a varnish for an everyday table I think.

    1) With other varnishes (poly), I have started with a coat or two brushed on to help get the build/leveling started, light sanding to get rid of raised grain, dust, etc, and then wiped on the last one or two coats to get more of that oil/hand rubbed feel. I just feel like brushing on the final coat leads to a plastic feel, I'm not sure why. I think the thinner wiped coats dry faster and get less dust, etc.

    I see most folks wipe Waterlox, their own instructions are to brush it, I don't want a super thick epoxy look, but I do want some build in this case.

    Sound reasonable?

    2) Anyone put it on over BLO or some other oil finish? Waterlox does yellow the pine a bit on my test pieces, I may darken it with PTO or BLO first and then topcoat with Waterlox. Maybe mix with waterlox for first coat?

    3) Rubbing out (weeks/months later)- I've used wool lube and steel wool with good effect on lacquer. How do you guys rub out waterlox?

    Thanks in advance.
    Where did I put that?

  2. #2
    I'll assume you are talking about Waterlox Original Sealer Finish - Original Formulation, which is formulated to be a wipe-on finish, herefore "OSF".

    1. You can use your normal regimen: brush a couple coats, then wipe the final ones.
    2. No reason to put BLO on first. It will work fine, but OSF is darker than BLO and both will have similar effects on the visual depth.
    3. Same way. I don't rub out, though. Especially on a kitchen time, IMHO, the table rubs itself out with time. Also note that OSF starts off glossy but does settle down with a little time, so if it's sheen you are trying to correct by rubbing out, it too may correct itself. Last, if you are doing the brush,brush, wipe,wipe regimen, then your final coats won't really be thick enough to do a proper rub out. IMHO, rubbing out is least frustrating and most appropriate on brushed on coats, where there is good build in a single coat that can withstand some leveling. Thin, wipe on OSF coats don't withstand it - nor do they really need it - as well.

  3. #3
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    i did a bowling ally island top, long leaf pine and hard maple, with a walnut edge. I preferred brushing waterlox with my favorite 100% china brush over wiping on. There were a few brush marks, but after a 3 or 4 months they have rubbed themselves out. I did use the satin top coat and it has become nearly a flat finish that I love over time. follow the instructed finish schedule. I sanded lighly with 220 between the last 2 coats.

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the replies. Prashun you do seem to be the Waterlox expert around here. Good point about the wipe on layers. This is going to be a Christmas present for the wife- so I've got plenty of time to let it cure and see how it does. My main reason to rub it out would be for any swirl/brush marks or uneven sheen.

    The top is done, on to the legs and apron!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Where did I put that?

  5. #5
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    The wipe on coats can be applied in sets of 3 on a day, with the coats spaced just far enough apart that the tackiness has disappeared. That usually takes two or three hours. Then after a set the finish should be allowed a full overnight to cure more completely. This method is particularly desirable when a rub out is desired. The bunched coats burn in together to create a single coat. This gives a thicker coat that can be rubbed out without cutting through that top coat into lower coats, a problem that can create witness lines around the cut through. It takes about 3-4 wiped on coats to equal one full strength varnish coat. It takes about two brushed on coats of the thinned Waterlox Sealer to be equivalent to one full strength varnish coat.

    It is true too that less rubbing is likely to be necessary with thin wiped on coats.

  6. #6
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    Interesting, so not a full cure between wipe on coats? Makes sense I guess as long as it doesn't get streaky. They brag about it's self-leveling, I figured some of that was the 24 hour between coats cure time.

    I went back and did another test piece- this time I was much more generous with the OSF, and the color is more of what I expected- it brings out some of the brown/reds from the wood. I guess the thin wiped on test piece didn't soak in very much. My finishing booth is covered in dust from my most recent project spraying a ton of tinted lacquer, so I need to get that cleaned up and then I'll start finishing the table top.
    Where did I put that?

  7. #7
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    Brushed on the first two coats. It sucked up the first coat like a sponge. I kept brushing some areas trying to keep a wet edge. Still had a few dry spots after 2nd coat so I brushed on a third. I think I'm finally getting a little build on those areas. I'll give it a few days, lightly sand, and start the wiping coats. I had some left over and hit an old bowl I had previously oiled that needed some fresh finish. Quick wipe on/wipe off x2 coats left a very nice finish on top of the old oil. I like this stuff.

    I'll post pics once the project is done but thanks for the tips.

  8. #8
    Glad it worked out.

  9. #9
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    I'd recommend against trying to rub out the Waterlox. Somewhere, ages ago, I detailed a long saga where I tried to rub out a Waterlox finish. The coats were just too thin, and I never could avoid witness marks. I've never done it since.
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
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  10. #10
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    Thinness of a wipe on coat is why I recommended applying the final coats in sets of three. The sets are applied as soon as the last is no longer tacky. The set coats burn-in together so that it is in effect a single coat of full thickness. This burn in between coats is what eliminates the chance of witness marks. You do need to allow fuller overnight cure between sets.

  11. #11
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    I brushed on 3 coats with a foam brush, sanded with 400/600 and wiped on a coat. I'm thrilled with how it dried- glass smooth. No dust. Still leveled really well. The problem is some of the rougher grain and especially pieces with sapwood still have dry spots. I don't want much more build on the rest of the table. I may try to preferentially soak those areas. I flooded the first coat on, and kept those areas as wet as possible but it just is what it is.

    It's also way more glossy that what I usually prefer. I'll let it alone for a few months but I will probably want to try something down the road. I've had good luck with well lubed steel wool and a light touch not rubbing through layers of other finishes, but I'll probably try the triple wipe process you're describing next for a final coat.

  12. #12
    Congratulations. "The problem is some of the rougher grain and especially pieces with sapwood still have dry spots." This is exactly why I recommend sanding up to 600 grit. Even better, apply a thin seal coat of shellac, and sand THAT smooth to 600. Then apply the waterlox. Your first coat will go on evenly without soaking in.

  13. #13
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    Does that affect the perceived depth of the finish? Flat spots aside it does look great.

    Part of the problem is the rough spots are where I left some of the mill marks- sanding those smooth wasn't an option. I filled the deeper marks with clear epoxy but left some of the lighter ones unfilled and those are my problem spots. They'll build eventually.

    I have a walnut end table previously finished with oil I'm going to put this on. I'll sand it to 600 but it should be well sealed already. It sure seems like a brushed coat could probably fill the walnut grain the way it looks on this table.
    Last edited by Rob Price; 11-24-2016 at 10:12 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    Even better, apply a thin seal coat of shellac, and sand THAT smooth to 600. Then apply the waterlox. Your first coat will go on evenly without soaking in.
    I apply a couple of brushed 1 lb coats of dewaxed shellac under Waterlox OSF all the time, I abrade the shellac with gray superfine woven pad, then apply the thinest of wiped on coats of OSF.

  15. #15
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    I can see you've already started with the Waterlox. Maybe next time I'd recommend trying General Finishes High Performance Water based topcoat for high traffic tables or their Enduro Var. I've redone kitchen tables in GF and they look great, coat very well 2-3 coats tops. cover oak with no "dry" or thin spots, hold up for years. Easy to apply and self leveling a little after application. In woodworking and finishing there are many paths to the same results so I'm not touting one over the other. I'm just not "tung oil" and polymerized varnish fan. WaterLox claims tung oil provides great penetrating and drying quality but oil only finishes would never dry if they didn't have driers mixed in with them either by chemical reaction or chemical and heat activated. Water based polyurethanes are easy to apply for those with limited finishing tools/skill/time and provide handsome results plus durability. * forgot another gentleman provided good advice about sealing after sanding with either shellac or just Zinsser Sealcoat (shellac wash coat) prior to final top coating.

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