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Thread: WoodJoy spokeshave blades

  1. #1
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    WoodJoy spokeshave blades

    I'm posting this to highlight what I think is a terrific practice by a manufacturer, WoodJoy. Without further ado, here's the back of the blade from their Master spokeshave, which is a low-angle/bevel-up tool:

    IMG_1176.jpg

    The part that I really like is that the back is hollow-ground, such that it can be easily flattened and polished. Low-angle shaves have very minimal clearance, so "ruler-tricking" isn't an option. You typically have to polish the blade flat, as with the Veritas blade of which I posted a picture in the ruler trick thread. WoodJoy also hollow-grinds their blade faces, which makes first-time tuning a snap.

    Traditionalists are out of luck, though: These irons are cryo A2.

    I promise, this is the last of the "blade porn".
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 11-22-2016 at 10:27 PM.

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    One other remark: WoodJoy's shaves (I have the Master and the cigar shave) are nice to use overall. The depth-adjust mechanism in particular is easy and precise. Their mouths are non-adjustable and will tend to open up a bit as the blade is sharpened, but other than that I can't think of any areas of concern.

    The Veritas low-angle shave is hard to beat for the money, but if you're willing to spend a bit more then IMO the WJs are worth a look.

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    A few more comments about Glenn and Woodjoy Tools.

    First, I am sorry Patrick but you are not correct about WJ shave mouths not being adjustable. The # 85 Razor's Edge spokeshave allows the user to adjust both the position of the blade in relation to the mouth and the entire brass piece that is the mouth as well. The Master spokeshave has a height adjustable brass plate for a mouth, affording some height adjustment. The Livingston spokeshave has slots, the screws holding the blade sit in, that allows the user to move the blade closer or further from the mouth of the shave. There are actually three sets of screws for holding the Livingston's blade in place, allowing the user to adjust the blade forward and backward and up and down. The third set of screws, in conjunction with the height adjusting screws, lock the blade in place after it is exactly where the user wants it.

    I have never had a WJ blade slip on me, you do have to be aware of which screws are locking the blade in place, making sure they are tight. There may be two opposing screws, both of which need to be tightened down to hold the blade in place. The adjustments are a little slower to learn and use but yes they make for very precise setting of blade and mouth position.

    I think it should be explained that Glenn makes and I believe heat treats his own blades. This practice might frighten some but I believe Glenn's experience, education and supply of tools uniquely qualify him to do this. I have a drawknife made by Glenn that I used in a Peter Galbert chair making class. Pete offered to sharpen it for me. I think he was curious as it was a new product for Glenn that I don't think Pete had seen. When he returned it Pete used some colorful expletives to explain that the steel was impressively hard.
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 11-23-2016 at 4:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    A few more comments about Glenn and Woodjoy Tools.

    First, I am sorry Patrick but you are not correct about WJ shave mouths not being adjustable.The Master spokeshave has a height adjustable brass plate for a mouth, affording some height adjustment.
    As I believe was clear from my post, I was referring to the two shaves I have: Master and Cigar. Neither of those has a "mouth adjustment" by any remotely reasonable definition of the term.

    When folks say "mouth adjustment" in the context of a plane or shave they refer to an adjustment that can be used to change the opening *independent of cut depth*, Examples of mouth adjustments include a sliding toe as in a block plane, the frog adjustment in a Bailey-pattern plane, or the fore-aft blade adjustment in the Veritas LA shave (the latter has a very weak coupling with cut depth, but in practical terms it's a mouth adjustment).

    An adjustment that only changes cut depth (like the screw-based depth adjustments in WJ's shaves) or that changes both cut depth and mouth opening in tandem (like the blade adjustment in many planes) doesn't count.

    People usually carve out an exception for BedRocks: Both the blade adjustment and the frog adjustment change both extension and mouth opening, but they do so in different ratios, so by iteratively fiddling them both you can independently adjust extension or mouth (though it's enough of a pain in the a** that I've never understood the modern popularity of that design. The old craftsmen who didn't buy it back in the day were right).

    EDIT: Obviously you could open the mouth of the Master without changing extension by inserting shims in the bottom of the brass toe's mortise - is that what you're referring to? I don't think you can realistically call that a "mouth adjustment" though, particularly given that to *close* the mouth you'd need to deepen that mortise.

    More broadly, the purpose of this thread was to compliment the WJ shaves and particularly the blade setup, not get into semantic arguments with fanboys who take offense at even the most trivial critiques of their favorite tools. The two WoodJoys I have are excellent tools.
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 11-24-2016 at 11:00 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    I think it should be explained that Glenn makes and I believe heat treats his own blades. This practice might frighten some but I believe Glenn's experience, education and supply of tools uniquely qualify him to do this. I have a drawknife made by Glenn that I used in a Peter Galbert chair making class. Pete offered to sharpen it for me. I think he was curious as it was a new product for Glenn that I don't think Pete had seen. When he returned it Pete used some colorful expletives to explain that the steel was impressively hard.
    His blades seem to be well and consistently made, with grain size and "chippiness" on the small/good side for A2 (though still considerably worse than HCS or a state-of-the-art PM steel like PM-V11). They didn't strike me as particularly hard for A2, but then again I worked them on a relatively hardness-insensitive medium (diamond paste). I'll have to try them on a waterstone some time...
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 11-24-2016 at 2:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chase View Post
    EDIT: Obviously you could open the mouth of the Master without changing extension by inserting shims in the bottom of the brass toe's mortise - is that what you're referring to? I don't think you can realistically call that a "mouth adjustment" though, particularly given that to *close* the mouth you'd need to deepen that mortise.
    In keeping with my new practice of excessively posting photos, here's the relevant part of the WJ Master:

    IMG_1177.jpg

    The mouth opening is the distance along the bottom of the shave from the corner of the brass mouth to the edge of the blade.

    The brass mouth is registered in that axis to the back of its mortise. The mouth can be reversed, but the corner that defines the mouth ends up in exactly the same place in both positions. The blade's cut depth adjustment mechanism (not shown) moves it up and down, but the blade is tightly mortised in the direction of the mouth opening, i.e. you can't move it forward and back along the cutting axis.

    The mouth is therefore entirely determined by 2 things: The distance from the brass mouth insert's mortise to the blade's mortise, and the length of the blade itself from its ears (the parts that engage the mortise on either side) to its edge. It can't be adjusted other than by physically modifying either those mortises or the blade, and that makes it non-adjustable.
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 11-24-2016 at 11:01 PM.

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    Patrick, it appears you are not open to discussing: accuracy, inaccuracy, or further expansion of the information in your posts. This attitude seems unfair to this poster, as you frequently seem to challenge the information others post. I was concerned that other readers might make inaccurate assumptions from the information you supplied regarding whether WJ shaves have adjustable mouths. I don't think it is fair for you to take such strong exception to my post "fanboys who take offense at even the most trivial critiques of their favorite tools" when all I was trying to do was expand on the information you provided.

    I will respectfully disagree with your assertion that the Master WJ shave does not have "adjustability". It seems to me that the feature/option of turning the entire mouth/rest around to expose either a curved or flat surface, by it's very nature, alters the mouth of the plane. Then there is the ability to adjust blade height and arguably the rest height....but I want get pulled into a debate regarding exactly what does or does not make a shave mouth "adjustable". The fact is it does not require much adjustment in a spokeshaves mouth to have a fairly large effect on how they work. The WJ shaves are unique in the small, accurate set screws they use, which at least in the estimation of this poster does make the mouths of several of their planes “adjustable”.
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 11-25-2016 at 1:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    Patrick, it appears you are not open to discussing: accuracy, inaccuracy, or further expansion of the information in your posts. This attitude seems unfair to this poster, as you frequently seem to challenge the information others post. I was concerned that other readers might make inaccurate assumptions from the information you supplied regarding whether WJ shaves have adjustable mouths. I don't think it is fair for you to take such strong exception to my post "fanboys who take offense at even the most trivial critiques of their favorite tools" when all I was trying to do was expand on the information you provided.

    Then why didn't you *say* that you were just adding information instead of starting your post with "you are not correct"? If you take an uncivil approach then you can't reasonably expect a civil response.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    I will respectfully disagree with your assertion that the Master WJ shave does not have "adjustability". It seems to me that the feature/option of turning the entire mouth/rest around to expose either a curved or flat surface, by it's very nature, alters the mouth of the plane.

    No, reversing the insert alters the shape of the *toe*, which is not the same thing as the mouth. If you look carefully at the brass insert you'll see that the part of its profile that forms the leading edge of the mouth is exactly the same on both sides, and the mouth size is in any case determined by the location of the back wall of the toe's mortise. The reversible toe is not a mouth adjustment in any conventional sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    The WJ shaves are unique in the small, accurate set screws they use, which at least in the estimation of this poster does make the mouths of several of their planes “adjustable”.
    The set screw scheme is indeed extremely nice and I said so in post #2, but it's a *depth adjustment*, not a *mouth adjustment*. You can invent your own language all you want, but the commonly understood meaning of "mouth adjustment" is something that allows the size of the opening to be adjusted independent of depth. WJ's set-screw mechanism doesn't do that. The reversible toe insert doesn't do that.

    By the argument you're trying to make here every tool with adjustable cut depth has an "adjustable mouth". Do you really believe that to be the case?
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 11-25-2016 at 2:22 AM.

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    Incorrigibile!

  10. #10
    I published an article on wooden spokeshave building some years ago. It is in my first book page 104.

    A Hock blade was used and I built a simple jig for the Tormek to produce a hollow grind just like the one above.

    Best wishes,
    David

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    Quote Originally Posted by david charlesworth View Post
    I published an article on wooden spokeshave building some years ago. It is in my first book page 104.

    A Hock blade was used and I built a simple jig for the Tormek to produce a hollow grind just like the one above.

    Best wishes,
    David
    Yep, there's no question you can do that to a blade back yourself. I just found it an extremely pleasant surprise to see a BU shave blade come from a manufacturer that way. Less remedial work is always good as far as I'm concerned.

  12. #12
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    I have a 2" Woodjoy spokeshave. I've had it so long that I forgotten that it is a Woodjoy. It does everything I've ask of it.

    In their site, the picture shows four shaves, mine is the second one from the top. I have shaves from another vendor, but
    the Woodjoy is the one I normally use.
    Last edited by lowell holmes; 11-26-2016 at 9:57 AM.

  13. #13
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    Lowell it is interesting that you bring up Glenn’s 2” shave. I have been trying to make some modifications to a couple of these shaves to get a shave better at working chair seats. Glenn Makes a 2” flat sole and a 2” compass sole and I am interested in a shave with a sole closer to the flat sole but with a little curve in it, much less than on the compass model.


    Peter Galbert has a number of YouTube videos, which explain the design and use of the travishers he makes. I want post them here as they are promoting a specific product. In these videos he compares an old style wood spoke shave to a Stanley #151. He demonstrates that the two screws on the top of the 151 allow the user to adjust the depth of cut. Then he demonstrates how an older style spokeshave can be used with a “rolling cut” to increase or decrease the depth of cut during the cut. Peter explains that this feature of the older shave has to do with a “gentle curve” in the sole of the older shaves.

    Moving this information to a different thread.


    The brass flat sole on the WJ 2” shave extends the entire width of the contact area with the work piece. Glenn suggested that I might try removing the flat sole from one of these shaves so I could add a gentle curve that would allow me to make the same rolling cut Peter talks about. If this works then I may remove the straight handles and add something more like gull wings. Peter points out in his video that he grips his travisher down at the base, only using the (gull wing) arms/handles as guides and for steering, not as actual grips. So a “gull wing” spokeshave, gripped by the base not the arms may perform more like one of Pete's travishers, at leas in terms of using it to make a rolling cut.
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 11-26-2016 at 12:20 PM.

  14. #14
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    Mike,
    I have a curved shave that was made by another participant in a chair making class at Homestead Heritage. This was at least 15 years ago. I do not remember his name, but it was his shave and I liked it so much that I badgered him until he agreed to sell it to me for $300. He made the shave himself. The blade has an 5" radius, and I find it to be extraordinarily good to use. It takes much finer shavings than the Dunbar shave from a popular tool site. I think the use a 10" brake drum to form the blade. I also have the Dunbar shave. I never use it.

    I should call it a travisher.
    Last edited by lowell holmes; 11-27-2016 at 9:28 AM.

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