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Thread: questionable cermark results

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    North Carolina
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    116

    questionable cermark results

    I was trying my first Yeti 20 oz. cup. I sprayed it with Cermark and waited a couple of hours to make sure that it was dry. I think that I sprayed it on a little too heavy or light not sure at the top of my logo. Why my wife just got it out of the dishwasher, the top portion was washing off.

    I used my Epilog 40 watt, Power=100, Speed=45, DPI=600.

    Any ideas, suggestions or tips?
    40 Watt Epilog Helix

    Roland EGX-20 Rotary Engraver

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Cincinnati, Ohio
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    1,843
    Switch to LMM6038 or LMM14. I've done hundreds & hundreds of Yeti and it doesn't matter - thick, thin, runny or smooth, I get perfect results every time. NOTE: I would NOT leave 6038 on for several hours, it can be harder to remove than 6000 or 14.
    Tim
    There are Big Brain people & Small Brain people. I'm one of the Big Brains - with a lot of empty space.- me
    50W Fiber - Raycus/MaxPhotonics - It's a metal eating beast!
    Epilog Fusion M2 50/30 Co2/Fiber - 2015
    Epilog Mini 24 – 35watt - 2006 (Original Tube)
    Ricoh SG3110DN
    - Liberty Laser LLC

  3. #3
    First, don't put them into the dishwasher. Second, the problem is likely with your laser settings. It seems to me that your speed should be down in the range of 10% given the wattage of your machine. I don't believe you are adequately bonding the Cermark to the stainless steel. I've done more than 2000 of these in the last month using Cermark LMM6000 without any issues.

    I am using a sponge brush to apply the Cermark and I dilute it with denatured alcohol to about the consistency of 2% milk.
    Mike Null

    St. Louis Laser, Inc.

    Trotec Speedy 300, 80 watt
    Gravograph IS400
    Woodworking shop CLTT and Laser Sublimation
    Dye Sublimation
    CorelDraw X5, X7

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Suwanee, GA
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    3,686
    Did you run a test grid? If not, go back and run one now that you have a sacrificial Yeti to test on. I'm betting you have two issues, applying too thick and under powering / over speeding. I'm betting you'll need to be around 25-35 speed with your machine. Like Mike said, thin it down and apply, you almost can't get it too thin but you can certainly get it too thick. LMM6000 works fine, I've used it on 10's of thousands of parts over the years with no problems.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
    Posts
    332
    FWIW - My X2-600 outputs 58 watts (50 watt tube) and I run Cermark at 35 speed, 100 power, and 1000 PPI to get a good, dark, durable mark. I don't know which version of Cermark it is. It's the one in the rattle can.
    4 - Q1 converted New Hermes C2000's
    Signature 8080 Plus
    Universal 50w X2-600
    Universal 60w X-660
    Epilog 60w Fusion 40
    50w 5070 China Special

  6. #6
    45% speed is WAAAYYYYY tooooo fast. That's probably too fast for even an 80w machine (talking metal laser here, not glass)...

    Cermark needs time to fuse to the metal. I run my 40w LS900 at 600dpi res and 18% speed. I can get away with 20%, but if there's the least bit of an issue with focus or some smudge, then I can't trust the mark to stay put. To do it right, it takes time...

    This set of knives I Cermarked at least 5 years ago. Some of them, the steak knives in particular, have been thru the dishwasher at least 300 times. The marks have faded over time, but that's it.
    cmknives.jpg
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    North Carolina
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    116
    When applying cermark 6000, I'm using a foam brush after cutting it 1:1 with DA, is it okay if it looks streaky when brushed on or should it look smooth? streaky looks thinner like what has been stated it needs to be.
    40 Watt Epilog Helix

    Roland EGX-20 Rotary Engraver

  8. #8
    Mine sometimes looks streaky. It's important that the area to be engraved is completely covered. Applying with a foam brush doesn't always produce a nice looking paint job but I have not had any foul-ups because of the streaks. I don't subscribe to the 1:1 ratio as I prefer to eyeball the consistency. I frequently add dna when doing a large order.
    Mike Null

    St. Louis Laser, Inc.

    Trotec Speedy 300, 80 watt
    Gravograph IS400
    Woodworking shop CLTT and Laser Sublimation
    Dye Sublimation
    CorelDraw X5, X7

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    590
    Assuming you've got the correct Cermark for what you're trying to do, you should have no problem getting a solid, permanent black mark with the proper power settings. It takes very little cermark to get a good mark.

    To give you an example: I had a cup misaligned and stopped it after about 10 seconds of marking. I spent almost an hour trying to remove the mark with various chemicals and scrub pads (even some 400 grit sandpaper) and couldn't get it to completely disappear.

    Also, usually yeti's are fine they way they come, but make sure the surface is clean and dry. If there's any question, clean lightly with DNA before applying the Cermark. This made a big difference on some off brand cups I did last month.
    60W, Boss Laser 1630
    75W, Epilog Legend 24EX
    Jet Left Tilting table saw and Jet 18" Band saw
    Adobe Creative suite and Laserworks 8

  10. #10
    I remember good ol' molasses Cermark, you could really hit that hard with the DNA, not this new stuff.. BUT, 1:1 is a bit much, you should be thinning it out a bit more...

    try my viscosity test, works well with the big Yeti.. Thin some out about 1.5 parts DNA to 1 part CM, mix will. Load some on a small bristle (not foam) brush, and drag the brush across the lip of the jar once to remove some of the excess so it's not dripping wet. Now brush about a 1-1/2" stripe around the circumference near the top.

    If it's too thick, the far edges won't move, or will just barely ooze, and it will look thick-ish. It will work fine, but you're wasting money!

    If it's too thin, the far edges will run way down the sides almost like milk- or lets say half 'n' half -- and will look thin-ish like half 'n' half. If mixed well, this will also work if you can get it on smooth, especially on flat parts. But, I've found the mark isn't as black as it is if there's more on to start with. If I get a mix this runny, I'll usually apply a second coat, then thicken up the batch a snick.

    When it's just right, the edges should run, but not so fast, and should stop running around or before half-way down the sides. It should look about as thick as a sheet of paper (for lack of a better analogy)..

    When mixing in my jar, I'll wipe some along the side of the jar and see how quickly it runs off. If it hangs onto the side, too thick - if it washes down the side too quickly there's too much DNA- Somewhere in between is just right!

    Just takes some practice!
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Iowa USA
    Posts
    4,441
    Kev, did you get the part for your fiber laser yet?
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    116
    I believe I need to get a new bottle of cermark. I think mine is a little old however my cermark spray seems fine so far. I do have a couple of questions, I assume that if I laser and the cermark turns blue instead of being black while being lasered, I need to speed up the laser, correct?

    Also, is the marking from cermark suppose to be a dull black?
    40 Watt Epilog Helix

    Roland EGX-20 Rotary Engraver

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Suwanee, GA
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    3,686
    Instead of guessing what the speed should be, you should do a power grid. 1/4" squares with 100% power and varying speed from 10 to 80 in increments of 5. Scrub with a gray scotchbrite pad and see what sticks. Then do another grid in increments of 1 or 2 around the speed that stuck. You will get much better, and consistent, results this way. Yes, the mark should be dull-ish black-ish, but never tan or blue.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill George View Post
    Kev, did you get the part for your fiber laser yet?
    Nope. Probably in Ohio

    Not to sound wishy-washy (don't want nobody confusing me for some polytishun), but-- I don't think I need it... In my sword post where I said it screwed up my aluminum boxes, after doing a little research I found out I'm the one responsible... Goes to my OTHER post about doing dumb **** ...

    What happened: My laser and everything sits on an old table.
    I strap these boxes against the side of the table to hold them still, but to focus them they're propped up from the floor, which of course isn't part of the table.... They have nearly .030" of paint on them to burn thru before it hits aluminum so it takes LOTS of passes just to get thru paint. So I run a pass or two, then I check. I have several different settings in different colors to lighten up the engraving once I hit aluminum... so what I was doing was walking over to the computer to change colors, and leaning down on the table with my left arm while I worked the mouse with my right hand to change colors. This table is older than I am and is pretty beefy, but so am I... As I was putting my weight on the table, the top moved down slightly, when I let off it moved back-- as did the strap holding the box... If the box had been anchored to the table, nothing would have changed, but it was supported by the floor. so I was moving the box sometimes, ever so slightly, like maybe all of .010", but that's 12% of some of the .08" lettering, with is noticeable. And I did the lean thing about 4 times per box. One set of text was engraved in 3 different places, each just a snick lower than the last one, pretty much exactly how the box would move...

    Another lesson learned the hard way... don't touch the table if the machine's a-workin' !

    I believe Gary having me mess with that plug did the trick. It has been working great after all, and I have gobs of work for the thing so it'll get tested well. If I can't get it to mess up I'll probably send the scanhead back...
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Suwanee, GA
    Posts
    3,686
    I had the same "laser problem" a few years ago with my (your) Explorer. I had some long pieces I was engraving, 7' long, and had them supported on the far end using a tripod. This was when I had the laser in the house, in a spare bedroom. The floor was carpeted and I put down 3/4" mdf to give me a more solid, smooth surface to roll on when I needed the room for large pieces. Well, what I failed to consider when I was troubleshooting a problem very similar to yours was that the tripod was moving when I stepped on the mdf to go look at the jobs progression. I thought I bumped the piece the first time so I was very careful the second time but still had the same problem. Not until I looked at my feet to see if I was bumping into the tripod did I notice the mdf flexed a bit... problem solved, stay off the mdf while the job ran!

    Glad you figured out your "laser problem" as well!

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