What is your Shooting Board technique?

[Frederick Skelly]

Do you back the plane up and "take a run at it" to use the plane's momentum? Or something else?

The long story.
Last summer, a buddy of mine shipped me a Tom Bussey-prepared #606C Bedrock he'd bought a couple years ago and wasn't using. I didn't need another #6 but I just couldnt argue with a tool that had been machined flat and square by Tablesaw Tom. So I got it to use as a nice shooter. Problem is, I just couldn't find a way to hold it COMFORTABLY, during shooting. I couldn't find a good way to attach a hotdog and I wasnt willing to drill/tap mounting holes. So I horsed around and finally came up with a prototyope of a handle that works pretty well. That's a story for another thread.

But in the process of looking at "hotdog plans", I read Derek Cohen's comparison of the LV, Stanley and LN Shooting Planes and was struck by his comments on "momentum". My interpretation - and Derek please correct me if I misunderstood you - is that one reason the LN works so well is that it's the heaviest of the 3 tested, which lets one use momentum to your advantage in shooting. That led me to think that my previous technique wasn't right. I used to move the blade right up against the board to be "shot" and push it slowly through the cut. On hardwoods, that was sometimes tough. So this morning I tried making a "running start" at it - backing the plane up several inches to get it moving before it contacts the wood. And after a few tries I found it worked pretty well for me.

So I'm curious what you folks do? Have I got this completely wrong? Are there better techniques for using a bevel DOWN plane to shoot?

Thanks,
Fred

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I use my No. 7 mostly. The main thing is finding a good grip. I put my thumb on the adjusting knob, and my palm and fingers sort of go around the frog and blade assembly. With a light cut and sharp blade it seems to work pretty well.

[Derek Cohen]

Fred, you should not need to "run at" the work piece with your plane. That invites the plane to rock in the runway and lose precision.

The conditions for "pushing through" from a standing start are a sharp blade (I think that yours is likely not sharp enough), and taking a fine shaving (determine how thin by the hardness of the wood). Sharp blade and light shavings.

The grip on a Stanley bench plane will never be comfortable on its own. Some have used a hotdog handle for better success. You should look into this as it can transform the way you hold and control the #606. Alf designed and built this one: http://cornishworkshop.blogspot.com....principle.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John Crawford]

I also rely on the sharp blade + light cutting. I use my #8 because it is the only plane I own that is actually square; probably this is "too large" but I do think the momentum helps.

For a simple solution to holding it, try out wearing a work glove on the hand that grips the plane. I also can't find any comfortable way to shoot w/ an unmodified Bailey plane. But, putting on a leather glove works well enough to keep it from being painful.

[Frederick Skelly]

Fred, you should not need to "run at" the work piece with your plane. That invites the plane to rock in the runway and lose precision.

The conditions for "pushing through" from a standing start are a sharp blade (I think that yours is likely not sharp enough), and taking a fine shaving (determine how thin by the hardness of the wood). Sharp blade and light shavings.

The grip on a Stanley bench plane will never be comfortable on its own. Some have used a hotdog handle for better success. You should look into this as it can transform the way you hold and control the #606. Alf designed and built this one: http://cornishworkshop.blogspot.com....principle.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thank you Derek - for both the lesson and the link. First, I'll resharpen that blade. Then, I'll make a hotdog his way and see if it feels better than the handle I did. Many thanks Sir!

Fred

[Frederick Skelly]

I also rely on the sharp blade + light cutting. I use my #8 because it is the only plane I own that is actually square; probably this is "too large" but I do think the momentum helps.

For a simple solution to holding it, try out wearing a work glove on the hand that grips the plane. I also can't find any comfortable way to shoot w/ an unmodified Bailey plane. But, putting on a leather glove works well enough to keep it from being painful.

Thank you John. I'll try that glove. Was wondering about that but hadnt tried it.
Fred


Edit: Just tried it with a leather glove. Man does THAT help. Thanks again John.

[Jim Koepke]

Do you back the plane up and "take a run at it" to use the plane's momentum? Or something else?

[snip]

But in the process of looking at "hotdog plans", I read Derek Cohen's comparison of the LV, Stanley and LN Shooting Planes and was struck by his comments on "momentum". My interpretation - and Derek please correct me if I misunderstood you - is that one reason the LN works so well is that it's the heaviest of the 3 tested, which lets one use momentum to your advantage in shooting. That led me to think that my previous technique wasn't right. I used to move the blade right up against the board to be "shot" and push it slowly through the cut. On hardwoods, that was sometimes tough. So this morning I tried making a "running start" at it - backing the plane up several inches to get it moving before it contacts the wood. And after a few tries I found it worked pretty well for me.

So I'm curious what you folks do? Have I got this completely wrong? Are there better techniques for using a bevel DOWN plane to shoot?

Thanks,
Fred

My technique is to start with the plane back as far as possible with the toe still registered on the work piece. Then my upper body works together to propel the plane through the work as quickly as possible. Repeat as needed.

Here is my version of a hot dog on a #6.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ng-Board-Plane

My first attempt worked well, but it caused concern that it could crack or break out the plane's cheek.

The front of the final design is cut to seat against the back of the frog. This was made from a piece of scrap and is occasionally still used. After the posting of this I purchased an LN #62 low angle BU jack. Now the only time a bevel down plane is used for shooting is when something is wider than the LN #62 can handle.

jtk

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks Jim! I never fail to be amazed at the depth of knowledge and peoples' ingenuity around here. So many really good ideas for doing this that I hadn't considered, like your simple vertical handle and others. Sometimes, I just don't see the forest for the trees. Geez.

And then to top it all off, I find one post buried in your thread that points out the LV BU Jack has essentially a built in hotdog. I tried that just now. I'll be darned if it isn't a perfectly comfortable grip. So comfortable - even without a hotdog - that I think I'm going to set aside my 606 for a bit and try the BUJ for shooting. (That 606 is still a darn nice tool!)

Thanks to all of you!

Fred

[Kees Heiden]

For momentum you also need speed. M=mass x speed. So a heavier plane can be pushed slower through the wood then a lighter one without loosing too much speed during the cut. A bit of run on speed helps with a lighter plane but you loose control. You can also start the cut with the cutting edge close to the wood but give it a bumpstart with some extra force and then hopefully sail through the cut on monentum and minimal extra pushing power. A sharp edge and light cut are essential of course. In the end it is a balance act between mass, speed, resistance of the cut and your control over the plane.

[glenn bradley]

Plenty of good info here. I use the mass of the plane to assist in the cut.

As to the hot dog . . . could you do something like this between tote and sidewall?

I drilled a series of holes with a brad point to get the bulk of the slot. Tapped a hole for a grub screw which tightens from the no-show side. No drilling of the plane body required.

hot dog slot-finish 006.jpghotDogTote 2.jpghotDogTote 3.jpghotDogTote 4.jpg

I know you don't have as much room but, I'd give it a whirl.

[Adam Stevens2]

I just got myself the LV shooting plane, so I'm figuring out the best way to use it. I made a shooting board just for it that is a little larger than my old one. the weight of the plane certainly helps with keeping it in the cut. it works 1000 times better than my old setup, which primarily used a sharp, but much lighter smoother.

[Rob Luter]

I use a Veritas Low Angle Jack plane with the 25 degree blade. It does a great job on end grain and pushes through the cut with relative ease.

[Derek Cohen]

In 2011, I wrote an article comparing three shooting planes, the LN #9, LN #51, and the Veritas LA Jack. At the time I was demonstrating the use of these planes at a Lie Nielsen Handtool Event in Perth. Two conclusions arose from this experience:

1. The Veritas LA Jack was capable of out planing the LN #9 (which was a dedicated shooting plane) if the Veritas was gripped in a specific manner ...

"The correct way (in my opinion) of holding the LAJ (and shooting planes generally), is to exert downforce at a central point while simultaneously exerting low lateral sideforce. One must not attempt to simply push the plane against the sidewall to the shooting board. This will unbalance the plane and cause it to cant over.






Downforce is applied by the thumb directly into the dimpled fingerhole. Sideforce is applied by the four fingertips pushing from under the levercap."

2. The superior performance of the LN #51 was partly due to its extra mass, but also a consequence of its riding in a track in the #52 shooting board. This reduced any potential error in handling to a minimum.

Article: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...sCompared.html

As a result of this, I went on to advocate a side fence for shooting boards. Below is the Veritas LA Jack complete with a hotdog handle (which I designed in 2007) ...



Article: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMad...tingBoard.html

Plans for hotdog handle (MkII, 2008): http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMad...ck%20pics.html

Hope this helps.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Prashun Patel]

Fred-
I say this respecting that this may be an extravagance for some:

I have the Veritas Shooting plane, and it has literally changed the way I work. I struggled with making conventional planes ergonimcally work for a while. I had reasonable success with results as do most people, but it was just wasn't comfortable. More mass - like with a #7 - meant tired fingers.

The nice thing about a shooting plane is its mass, it's handle, and it's skew blade. All of these things contribute to making the shooting cuts smooth and easy. It is more like using a mandolin to slice ham. I find this shooting plane easier to use proper technique with than conventional planes: push down and forward, not left, into the piece.

Another nice feature is that you can remove, sharpen, and reseat the blade precisely in the same place, so there is no dialing in required between sharpenings. The bevel up configuration also means no cap screw or iron to mess with, which improves convenience.

How easy is the shooting plane to use? My 11 year old son shoots with it to produce perfect cross cuts on virtually everything he does now.

Anyway, food for thought...

[Patrick Chase]

Do you back the plane up and "take a run at it" to use the plane's momentum? Or something else?

I basically agree with Derek's reply. The key is to move through the cut with control and "authority". You want a certain amount of speed to help smooth out variations, but you also have to keep the plane under continuous control (no lunging or jerking) to avoid pivoting in the board's track etc.

The biggest benefit to the dedicated shooting planes is skew rather than mass IMO. Your 606 has a straight blade, so the entire blade enters the wood at almost exactly the same time. It can be difficult to make a controlled cut under those circumstances. This is so even if you use a ramped board, as ramps can only add a couple degrees,which doesn't make much difference. Dedicated shooters have 15-20 deg of blade skew, which makes a very noticeable difference.