Salmen Master Oil Stone.

[Warren Mickley]

Some neden oyle for to whette.

oilstone trevisa bartholomea 1398.png

The reason we use oil is so we don't have to spend time cleaning the stone.

[Andy Nichols]

Thanks for posting this, have used Arkansas stones most of my life, but know very little about them.

My Grandfather, born around 1890, used oil on stones for wood tools and water for knives....his professions were running a sawmill, blacksmith and butcher, plus both his Father and Grandfather had sawmills.

Asking why he used oil for one and water for the other never occurred to me, but I switched all of my Arkansas stones to water decades ago.....

Mos Maiorum,

Andy

[Karl Andersson]

Warren, you've posted that excerpt before; what do you suppose it means saying (roughly) 'but oil makes it smooth and water makes the edge fully sharp'? Which is the final step - the sharpening or the smoothing? it seems the quotation is saying you'd need both oil and water stones.
regards,
Karl

[Warren Mickley]

Warren, you've posted that excerpt before; what do you suppose it means saying (roughly) 'but oil makes it smooth and water makes the edge fully sharp'? Which is the final step - the sharpening or the smoothing? it seems the quotation is saying you'd need both oil and water stones.
regards,
Karl

Thanks for taking an interest in this Karl. My main idea was to point out that stones had been segregated into oil stones and water stones for a long time. This quote is from a 13th century English translation of a 12th century Latin text written in England by Bartholomeus. And as you can see he references Isidore, who wrote in the 7th century.

I interpret the quote similarly to you, Karl, that the water stone sharpens and the oil stone polishes the edge. In 18th century England and France they had grinding wheels and rub stones for coarse removal. Rub stones are flat grindstones. They had finer ragg stones, which were probably water stones also and are sometimes referred to as schisty. Then the oil stones (turkey stones and others) were for polishing.

I think coarse oil stones are a relatively recent invention.

[Stewie Simpson]

While purchasing different types of 2nd hand natural stones from the uk, I found it astonishing that nearly all of these stones have been used long term with oil. Why in the u.k. What was the impetus to not use water. Was it based on concerns with rust, the cooler wetter climate, or long held tradition. I honestly have no idea.

Take for example the condition I received the following Welsh Idwall Grecian Hone. Caked in years of oil use, inhibiting its capacity to function effectively. And why would you choose to use oil in the 1st place with this type of stone.



And here is the same stone after being cleaned up.



And here is the same stone being used today to hone a spokeshave blade. Its now a water stone. A quick wipe down with a damp rag, and the stone surface is ready for use next time its needed.



And look at the condition of the Ark stone when I received it. Covered in years of oil use. Its no wonder is was a terribly slow cutter..



The same Ark after being leeched of old oil and now a dedicated to water stone.



And the packaging on this Salmen U.K stone. It states USE WITH FINE OIL.



Why would you use oil on a quality Scotch Dalmore Blue.



Stewie;

[Warren Mickley]

Stewie, I think you are wrong to assume that some flea market hone was last used by some fine, well trained artisan. Fine craftsmen have been few and far between for a lot more than a century. More likely, some pitiful specimen was last used by a handyman, home owner, or hack. People have found deeply dished stones and suggested that serious craftsmen in centuries past used such trash, but it could have been just some gardener sharpening a hoe.

Another questionable assumption is the idea that one can evaluate a stone in an hour or even afternoon of discovery. A stone can behave quite differently when a worker has found just the right pressure to make it perform. When Japanese water stones were becoming popular here in America, Norton announced that they were going to develop water stones specifically designed for the American market. I read that as specifically designed for beginners. The product is quite different if it has to perform right away for someone used to a quite different style of stone or someone who is just starting out. A stone that takes skill and practice, that takes some touch to use is banished from this world.

[Stewie Simpson]

Stewie, I think you are wrong to assume that some flea market hone was last used by some fine, well trained artisan. Fine craftsmen have been few and far between for a lot more than a century.

Warren; Its likely your statement is influenced by what has occurred within your own country.

regards Stewie;

[Warren Mickley]

Warren; Its likely your statement is influenced by what has occurred within your own country.

regards Stewie;

I am offering an explanation of why the stones that Stewie from Australia buys from England might not arrive in the shape one might expect from a fine craftsman. I don't see where my own country comes into play in this situation.

Maybe an English craftsman could offer a better explanation of why a stone would be "Caked in years of oil use, inhibiting its capacity to function effectively." Or maybe better stones or better advice could be gotten in Australia.

[Charles Guest]

An oilstone used with a petroleum based oil and wiped down after use simply cannot cake. Even if not wiped it's hard for it to cake. If there was a solid, caked-on grunge I suspect the stone was used with a vegetable oil like linseed oil or something else. These are drying oils and hence the 'caking.' If the stones were used with linseed oil that's an immediate tip off that the last person to use it was anything but a fine craftsman.

The chances that a bona fide craftsman would let his daily go-to stone go completely to pot are just about nil, as are the chances a recently bought stone off EBay came out of the operation of a just-retired or perhaps recently deceased fine craftsman. If this were the case you'd probably see the entire kit coming to market and a reference in each item's description about the craftsman and the other items up for auction out of his kit.

[ken hatch]

Many of of the older writers (maybe not many but at least some) mention using Neatsfoot oil. The mentions are so off hand it gives the impression that everyone knows Neatsfoot oil is the correct oil to use on Ark stones. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but I changed to using Neatsfoot oil and my stones do not glaze as quickly as they did with thinner oils and the thicker oil does not seem to slow the stone. I expect some of that is technique but that is the case using oil or water stones natural or otherwise.

[Jim Koepke]

How long does long gone grandpa's stone sit on a shelf before one of his heirs decides it is time to let it go?

How often might it have been that grandpa was given some rancid 'salet oyl' by grandma and asked if he could use it for anything? (Once saw a reference to 'salet oyl' in regards to a honing stone.)

We can only speculate on how the craftsmen/women of days gone by might have taken care of their stones, tools or shops. They came up through many different environments. Some were carpenters, some built boats. Others built furniture while others may have only done cabinets. If a person learns at a young age to use a vegetable oil, mineral oil or kerosene it is likely that is what they will use for the rest of their days if someone can not convince them of some other stone lubricant being better. Most people do not possess the openness of mind to change their course due to a mere suggestion.

jtk

[Charles Guest]

Many of of the older writers (maybe not many but at least some) mention using Neatsfoot oil. The mentions are so off hand it gives the impression that everyone knows Neatsfoot oil is the correct oil to use on Ark stones. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but I changed to using Neatsfoot oil and my stones do not glaze as quickly as they did with thinner oils and the thicker oil does not seem to slow the stone. I expect some of that is technique but that is the case using oil or water stones natural or otherwise.

Absolutely! I'd still be using were it not for how thick it gets when cold though one reads old references that mention putting it on with a stick. It would certainly cling to one if a little chilled. Guess it didn't bother the old guys. It has a feel that tends toward greasy but it certainly holds the swarf in suspension with no problem.

[Pat Barry]

Stewie, this was labeled as an oil stone. Why did you want it to be a waterstone? What is the big advantage you see of it being a waterstone?

No doubt that either oil or water can be used. I think that guys need an oil stone to make sure their stone doesn't fracture from freezing. Water obviously doesn't have the oily mess.

[Stewie Simpson]

Pat; regardless of what it states on the box, I have a preference not to use oil on a Scotch Dalmore Blue.

Stewie;

[Stewie Simpson]

Absolutely! I'd still be using were it not for how thick it gets when cold though one reads old references that mention putting it on with a stick. It would certainly cling to one if a little chilled. Guess it didn't bother the old guys. It has a feel that tends toward greasy but it certainly holds the swarf in suspension with no problem.

Charles; you must be joking with that recommendation of Neatsfoot oil.