Wanted: An accurate chuck

[Jim Underwood]

For a recap of what happened with my Talon Chuck you can read this thread:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...and-it-anymore
The picture of the problem (on the Talon chuck) is on the second page, but it looks like this:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachme...3&d=1276104158

[Joe Shanaphy]

I have what may be a silly question. Does anyone have any experience with the Vicmarc direct-threaded chucks versus the Vicmarcs that use an insert? It SEEMS to me that the direct thread should be more precisely machined and without the one extra "variable" of an insert.

[Jim Underwood]

No experience with them, but that configuration made sense to me too.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I have what may be a silly question. Does anyone have any experience with the Vicmarc direct-threaded chucks versus the Vicmarcs that use an insert? It SEEMS to me that the direct thread should be more precisely machined and without the one extra "variable" of an insert.

Chuck Info here.

direct threaded chuck.jpg

As I have no Vicmarc chuck, is the 1 1/4” female thread maybe a regular size used for their inserts for smaller size spindles ???

[paul cottingham]

I'm just a baby newbie turner, but a fairly experienced woodworker, and I have a Oneway Talon Chuck. I haven't had any problems with it, and I'm using it on an old beaver lathe. But...I am nowhere near as picky as most people. So what isn't bugging me (or my turning buddy) might be intolerable to you. I also turn green wood.

[Peter Blair]

I don't have any but I know some swear by the Aminster Chucks that can be purchased at Lee Valley.

[Alan Trout]

Jim,

Using chucks really comes down to one thing, best practices/process. I use mostly Oneway serrated jaws anymore for my turning. I can get them to re-chuck on dry wood or plastic every bit as well as a Vicmarc or Nova chucks with a dovetail jaw. I like the serrated jaws for different reasons and unless you are doing what I am it really does not matter in the discussion, other than they can be re-chucked very accurately. And yes I come from a machine tool background and I am very picky about accuracy, probably more so than most professional turners. On wet wood turning and then drying you need use a friction chuck and the drive point from where you started between center to true up the tenon before you finish turn your bowl. This will give you as accurate a re-chuck as possible after drying. On dry wood you need to mark the jaws so you can put the chuck back exactly where it was. I will take pencil or fine line marker and mark between just one set of jaws and then number it to the slide it corresponds to. Usually the slide just above. You can mark all if you like but its not needed. When you start to tighten the jaws move the item chucked back and forth just slightly. You can feel where it fits best and then finish your tightening. That is as accurate as you are going to get with a moveable material. I don't think you need to throw money at another chuck, Just work on your process and perfect it. Practice and technique is almost always better than spending money.

Alan

[Jim Underwood]

Jim,

Using chucks really comes down to one thing, best practices/process. I use mostly Oneway serrated jaws anymore for my turning. I can get them to re-chuck on dry wood or plastic every bit as well as a Vicmarc or Nova chucks with a dovetail jaw. I like the serrated jaws for different reasons and unless you are doing what I am it really does not matter in the discussion, other than they can be re-chucked very accurately. And yes I come from a machine tool background and I am very picky about accuracy, probably more so than most professional turners. On wet wood turning and then drying you need use a friction chuck and the drive point from where you started between center to true up the tenon before you finish turn your bowl. This will give you as accurate a re-chuck as possible after drying. On dry wood you need to mark the jaws so you can put the chuck back exactly where it was. I will take pencil or fine line marker and mark between just one set of jaws and then number it to the slide it corresponds to. Usually the slide just above. You can mark all if you like but its not needed. When you start to tighten the jaws move the item chucked back and forth just slightly. You can feel where it fits best and then finish your tightening. That is as accurate as you are going to get with a moveable material. I don't think you need to throw money at another chuck, Just work on your process and perfect it. Practice and technique is almost always better than spending money.

Alan

I get the process. That process is what I practice.... But this ain't that problem... The chucks and jaws are wobbly. ESPECIALLY that G3. It doesn't matter if I mark the workpiece with pencil lines and jaw numbers... or wiggle it into the previous position, or tighten the tailstock up against the work piece to force the workpiece into the jaw faces.

If the piece gets a tenon turned on it, and then is reversed in the chuck, the piece wobbles because the CHUCK is the problem....
See the picture below for the misaligned jaws on the Oneway Talon:

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I get the process. That process is what I practice.... But this ain't that problem... The chucks and jaws are wobbly. ESPECIALLY that G3. It doesn't matter if I mark the workpiece with pencil lines and jaw numbers... or wiggle it into the previous position, or tighten the tailstock up against the work piece to force the workpiece into the jaw faces.

If the piece gets a tenon turned on it, and then is reversed in the chuck, the piece wobbles because the CHUCK is the problem....
See the picture below for the misaligned jaws on the Oneway Talon:

Are you saying that the Oneway Talon chuck is wobbling ?? or are the Nova chucks wobbling ??

Did you purchase the Talon chuck new, or was it a used chuck, and I can not understand that if you bought a new chuck that had defective jaws, why you did not return them, unless the jaws were damaged while being used.

You should be able to try the jaws from a friend’s Talon chuck on your chuck to find if there is anything wrong with the Talon chuck.

As for the nova chucks there are several reports about problems with wobbling, caused by using an aftermarket insert, try an original if you have one of those problematic inserts.

tarring one chuck with the problems of another doesn’t help anything here.

[Alan Trout]

I agree with Leo on this. I have 5 Nova chucks and 4 Oneway chucks and I do not have an issue with wobble with any of them. I use them on my Robust, Nova DVR and Woodfast lathes and they work equally as well on all of them. Again I have heard of some bad inserts with the Nova chucks. IMHO the Oneway has the best insert system of them all. The Taper insert that they use should be the most accurate. If you like a Dovetail jaw Oneway makes those and are worth a try, as they are way cheaper than another chuck.

Good Luck,

Alan

[Jim Underwood]

The Nova G3 (bought brand new) probably has an insert problem, because the whole chuck is wobbling. But I thought that it was an OEM insert in the red and black box... so I don't know if that's an aftermarket insert or not...I dunno about the jaws at this point because the whole chuck wobbles. GrAH!

The Oneway Talon was bought new from Hartville tools, and yes, when I realized there was a problem I should have reported it immediately. But for some reason I didn't. I don't really remember how it all went down. But I'm fairly sure the problem is/was the jaws... I linked to the picture of it twice already. Dunno why the picture doesn't actually show up now... By the time I had analyzed what was going on (see the previous link to the thread) it was WAY too late anyway, so I attempted to fix it myself.

When a guy buys TWO brand new chucks and they both are inaccurate (for whatever reason), then one's confidence in these manufacturers kinda ebbs... OH, and then there was the saga with the Jet 1642 I bought new, where the centers wouldn't line up despite getting two replacement tailstocks, and finally the motor shaft bending. Lets' just say I'm no longer a fan of Jet either...



***The two other NOVA chucks I don't remember every having any problems with. The midi chuck (my first new chuck) and the original Nova chuck (bought used) were both used on my Jet 1014 (also bought new- but had to exchange it for another because the motor pulley wasn't concentric and the headstock bearings knocked)***

Isn't there a manufacturer whose product isn't acceptably accurate right out of the box? This is why I'm looking at Vicmarc chucks. Can I pay a little more and get the quality I desire? Can you understand why I'm a bit fed up?

[Ronald Blue]

If the jaws are indeed not true to their mounts if they can't be returned for whatever the reason locate a machinist to correct the problem for you. They can chuck your chuck in a 4 jaw chuck on a metal lathe and indicate it in to be true and bore the ID of your jaws and turn the OD as well. You will want something like a rod chucked in the chuck to have pressure on the jaws while they are being machined. This is common practice on CNC machines to bore their "soft" jaws for the parts being machined. I would first be seeing if you can get Nova or whomever made them to make it right. Good luck.

[Roger Chandler]

Just for thought, Jim.........if your insert is one that is a taper, like on the oneway, then there should be three screws that hold the insert to the chuck body. To make the insert seat plumb/true, then one needs to turn the holding screws in sequence, a turn or at most two turns at a time. If one tightens down one screw all the way, there is no way an insert will seat correctly. Turn a couple turns, go to next screw, tighten a couple of turns, go to next screw and so on until the insert is seated all the way down and tight. Not following this sequence can and does induce wobble into the chuck, so I encourage you to take the screws out of your inserts, and follow that proceedure. Not sure what to tell you on the Nova chucks, other than the off brand inserts for the Nova chucks sold by Woodcraft were faulty at times, and only a genuine Nova insert fixes it.

[John Keeton]

Lot of good suggestions here. I am not familiar with your Stratos lathe. How long have you had it, and have you had ANY chucks spin true on it? If it is a standard spindle thread - 1.25" x 8tpi, or other standard thread, I would spin the chucks on another lathe to see if you get the same issues. If not, then it probably is your lathe.

If the problems are still there, then Roger's thoughts on the Oneway chuck seem to be the next step with it. However, I would remove the jaws, make the correction on the insert as recommended, and see if the chuck body spins true. If not, then you may have an issue with either the insert or the chuck body. I would redo the tightening of the insert again. If it spins true, attach the jaws with the screws in, but not tight, close the jaws and tighten the screws in rotation. If it doesn't spin true, then you probably have an issue with the jaws.

On the Nova, make sure the insert is a Nova insert. See if you can borrow another insert to try. Remove the jaws and see if the chuck body spins true. Repeat same as with the Oneway chuck.

With regard to both chucks, be certain they shoulder up on the face of the spindle and don't just bottom out on the threaded spindle.

Jim, I know you are frustrated and I do hope this resolves for you.

There are so many possibilities here that I would exhaust all of them before I started blaming the chucks. Obviously, there can be and are occasional machining issues with chucks of any brand, but it just seems very unlikely you would have two chucks, different brands, that do not spin true.

[Dom Garafalo]

There are so many possibilities here that I would exhaust all of them before I started blaming the chucks. Obviously, there can be and are occasional machining issues with chucks of any brand, but it just seems very unlikely you would have two chucks, different brands, that do not spin true

Jim, I think John is right that it is extremely unlikely that two good quality chucks are both problematic. I'm a new turner and over the last 6 months I bought 2 new Nova G3 chucks with Nova brand thread inserts and they both run perfectly on my Jet 1221. If it was me, I'd invest in a genuine Nova thread insert for the G3 and if that didn't solve the problem I'd take that chuck and insert and try it on someone else's lathe that is known to run true. That will narrow down the possibilities. I certainly wouldn't start buying new chucks until I was convinced that my lathe was not the problem. I hope you find your problem quickly.