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Thread: Downsizing from a 3 car to a 2 car garage shop

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Aiken, SC
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    33

    Downsizing from a 3 car to a 2 car garage shop

    In the next 12 months I'll be moving from Vermont to South Carolina and downsizing from a nice big shop, about the size of a 3 car garage, into a much more compact 2 car garage that will be completely dedicated to my woodshop. I make furniture for the wife. I've owned a tree farm for 20 years and in the process have harvested plenty of nice hardwoods - cherry, maple, white and yellow birch, and ash. I have about 10,000 board feet stored away to probably last me the rest of my life.

    Now I begin the painful process of downsizing.

    First question - I have a Powermatic 15 inch planer and a Powermatic 8 inch joiner. Both have helical heads. Since I'm always working with my own hardwood which is rough sawn from a Woodmizer band saw mill, these two tools get a lot of use. In thinking about downsizing this is the first area where I have to ask the question - will I enjoy a Hammer A3-41 with the silent head, or will I be kicking myself later. My current separate planer and joiner setup takes up a lot of space. I have them set up next to each other so they sort of share the infeed/outfeed area, but this could be a considerable space saver going to a combo machine and I know I'll have to make many of these sacrifices.

    1. The infeed/outfeed tables for the A3 are considerably shorter than my current joiner. I'm working by myself and have a hard time with long boards, so I mostly plan ahead of time and work with boards 6' or less, sometimes I'll grab a helper (wife) and work with an 8' board but then I owe big favors later so I don't do this too often. Can the A3 handle 6' boards comfortably, or am I going to have to get their extensions?

    2. For those of you that have had these machines for a while, are you know really tired of having to crank the bed up and down? I'm pretty good at processing my work. I'll spend 30 minutes on the joiner and then 15 on the planer and I don't usually need to go back and forth. I'm just thinking about how many times I'll leave the A3 in one mode and realize my next step requires using the other mode, and then get frustrated having to do the changeover. Your thoughts on how the changeover is really working.

    3. Mobility - I have my joiner and planer on nice mobile bases and sometimes I move them, mostly when I need to set up my tracksaw table to break down plywood. I've heard many concerns about the A3 mobility kit. Is the real solution to build a custom mobile base. I was actually going to look into the Sawstop base and see how close it was or how hard it would be to modify this.

    Anyways this is the first of many questions I'll have as I start the painful process of downsizing. I'm going through this exercise now because it's VERY EXPENSIVE to move big machines, so if I'm changing out machines it's best to do it before the big move.

    Thanks for your ideas/reactions...

  2. #2
    No experience with A-3, but you are moving to SC which means you can do a lot of work on apron in front of garage year round. I'm in central NC, and do my planing and jointing on apron in front of shop. Feed dust into a Thien Top Hat baffle powered by cyclone to save having to haul DC can from back corner of shop out to apron.

  3. #3
    I wouldn't buy new unless you don't want to spend the money to move, and really you don't seem to be gaining that much capacity. The mobility kit on the hammer doesn't move in all directions if I remember correctly. I have a 10x16 shop and put my jointer (6") and planer (12") against the wall and pull out when needed.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    E TN, near Knoxville
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Fritz View Post
    I was actually going to look into the Sawstop base and see how close it was or how hard it would be to modify this.
    I bought one of the industrial tablesaw Sawstop bases for a 700 lb milling machine - very well built. A couple of pushes on the lever with the toe and the hydraulic mechanism lifts effortlessly. Excellent casters.

    If you needed to needed to mount something larger I think it would be a significant job to rebuild due to the way it is made and works, a little easier perhaps to make it longer with a bit of welding, but harder to make it wider I think.

    I'm not quite ready to use mine but since my mill has a smaller footprint than the base the plan is to build a heavy steel base cabinet that will fit snugly into the mobile base.

    I could give you exact measurements of the base if you want them and look at it again to consider the what it would take to modify it.

    JKJ

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Coppell, TX
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    908
    I have a C3-31 which is essentially the A3-31 with a saw and shaper. The silent head is a lot (lot) quieter than a regular head (even quieter than the saw) and handles everything I've thrown at it. Changing from planer to jointer is literally a few minutes or less. The hand cranking of the planer table is easy (almost zero resistance). If you get the dial indicator readout, the planer can be set to almost exactly the same thickness time and again (as near as makes no difference in woodworking).

    For long boards I would recommend extension tables - again these are easy to add and remove and you can set them up to be co-planar to the jointer bed easily.

    Depending on whether you get the extensions with the support leg or not (and whether you move the A3 around) then you may need to adjust the extension leg each time you add it to the A3.

    I had the mobility kit on the C3 and it works ok. In the end, as I have to store my C3 up a ramp, I switched to a pallet truck as this allows me to increase the ground clearance to get up the slope.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Aiken, SC
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    33
    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    I bought one of the industrial tablesaw Sawstop bases for a 700 lb milling machine - very well built.

    I could give you exact measurements of the base if you want them and look at it again to consider the what it would take to modify it.

    JKJ
    John if you could give me the inside dimensions of the Sawstop ICS base that would be great. Basically where the machine sits inside.

    We are thinking the same way. One of the best mobile bases I've seen on the market.

    - Mike

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Aiken, SC
    Posts
    33
    Thanks everyone good responses.

    Andy especially appreciate the comments about your use of the C3-31. I will look into the extension tables and definitely the dial indiciator. I have thought about a combo machine with a slider, but my workflow is pretty good using my tracksaw for plywood sheet breakdown and the tablesaw for everything else, including a lot of dado cuts. My shaper/router use is much more on the router end of things. I build shaker style furniture with inset drawers. I don't have a need for large bits really. My go to router bits are for free hand edging and a couple of spiral straight bits for small grooves and rabbits.

    Next question - I'm going to upgrade my 25 year old Delta Unisaw with a 50 inch fence to a Sawstop PCS. For space reasons I was looking at the 36" T-Glide fence. Since I have starting using my tracksaw for plywood breakdown, and my router for dados in bookcase sides, I haven't done any wide cuts on my table saw in a while. But with only a 36" fence can I even consider putting a router in the right side of the Sawstop?

    Another part of this decision is figuring out what the best dust collection is for a router. For years I have used a Fein with a small hose going into my router with integrated dust collection. Works just OK. For some bits there is a lot of dust flying above the table. For dust collection with a router should I be thinking more about tying into my central dust collection cyclone or using the shopvac size hookup?

    - Mike

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    1,740
    Have you considered marking off the 2 car space in your present shop and try to see how your present tools may fit? You may be able to keep everything for now.
    Don

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    85
    I have the smallest A3, the A3-26, and I use it in a 1 car garage. I got it because it's the same footprint as a 6" jointer. If your main concern is maximizing capability in a small space, the A3s are great. My only regret is not getting the silent power cutter head. You will probably love having a 16" jointer.

    Directly to your questions:

    1) I have done 6' boards on mine and it's a little unwieldy with heavier or thicker boards. I made my own extensions (respecting forum rules, I won't provide a link but you can google "makingsplinters extension" for pictures and details). For the rare times I need them, I don't want to buy the aluminum ones. The A3-41 jointer bed is considerably longer than mine, so I think you'd probably be fine with 6' boards but maybe somebody who owns one of the larger versions can comment on this. Generally speaking, I just cut my parts closer to finished length in the rough stages so the considerable majority of my parts are 4' long or less and it isn't a problem.

    2) The cranking doesn't bother me too much. Changeover takes around 30-40 seconds for me. If I had two separate machines in the space I have, I would spend at least that amount of time re-arranging machines when switching from one operation to another anyway, so it's not a net loss.

    3) I have mine sitting on one of the heavier duty shop fox mobile bases. I never seriously considered the hammer mobile base because I have one like that on my band saw and I hate having to get out the tow bar to move it around. The way I look at that is if I had enough space to maneuver that tow bar around, I probably wouldn't need mobile bases! Also, I think it's very overpriced for what it is. The shopfox base I am using also only moves in one axis, which is good and bad. I have it set up so it only rolls perpendicular to the feed direction, and its wheels don't roll all that easily to begin with, so I don't bother screwing down the front feet and the machine never budges in use. I just roll it away from the wall and get to work. A four swivel caster arrangement wouldn't be able to do that because it would move around unless locked down, but would be much more maneuverable.

    The bottom line for me is that if I had space to have both machines ready to walk up and use at all times, I would have two machines. But since space is the hardest obstacle to overcome, even if I had twice as much space as I do, I start thinking how nice it would be to have another machine like a thickness sander in the place that stand-alone planer would consume.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Coppell, TX
    Posts
    908
    Derek, the A3-41 has 1800mm long tables (71 inches) so I'd agree that you would get a better jointed 6 foot board than with the regular A3 (which is 1400mm) but its still not going to be long enough to get a board dead flat over its length if it has some serious cupping

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,685
    I've never had a problem with the so-called "shorter" tables of my J/P and love having equally wide capacity for face jointing/flattening of material. The only time I actually run "long" material through is for skim-planing so I can see what's in a board prior to componentizing and milling. In other words, I break material down to much smaller components before I do "real work" at the J/P and that makes the table lengths almost irrelevant. It's rare that I need a finished board/component longer than 5-6' and it's generally easy to work with longer, either with physical supports or, quite frankly, a human helper. And the J/P takes up considerably less room than separates when you need to get maximum capacities in minimum space.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    E TN, near Knoxville
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    12,298

    SawStop industrial base measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Fritz View Post
    John if you could give me the inside dimensions of the Sawstop ICS base that would be great. Basically where the machine sits inside.
    We are thinking the same way. One of the best mobile bases I've seen on the market.

    Mike,

    I measured the SawStop base.

    SawStop_base.jpg

    The inside Length (L) is 25-9/16" from the inside of the front steel frame to a round support bar at the back.
    The inside Width (W) is 19-5/8" between 3/4"-dia felt cushioning pads at the left and right.

    The machine sits on two "straps" made from 2" wide 1/4" thick steel which rest directly on the floor. The ends of these straps are bent upwards to form a wide, flat-bottom "U" for the table saw base cabinet to sit on. There is an approximate 1/8" radius at the extremes of the flat portion making the width (W2) where the machine actually would contact the floor slightly narrower, 19-3/8". Since the table saw cabinets I've seen are also radiused on the bottom perimeter, this slight narrowing should not make any difference.

    If you haven't seen it here is the manual for the base you can download it from the link near the bottom of this page:
    http://www.sawstop.com/support/manua...l-cabinet-saw/

    JKJ

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Aiken, SC
    Posts
    33
    Good stuff John - Thanks.

    OK can anyone with a Hammer A3-41 tell me the outside dimensions of the base? I've looked at all their specs online and they don't get into this detail.

    - Mike

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Coppell, TX
    Posts
    908
    Can't give you the base size, Mike (you might need to contact the local Felder office to get that unless an owner pops up). I do have all of the Hammer footprints and a user manual for the A3 range if you need it

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