Christmas money - help me pick out my new hand plane!!!

[Mike Dowell]

Well, well... Looks like jolly ole' St. Nick hath left behind for me the gift of a brand new hand plane(in the form of money). Right now, the only plane I have worthy of mention, is the LV Apron Plane. I absolutely love it, and I use it all the time. There are times when I wish I would have gotten a full size block plane, and perhaps one day I will. But, for my next plane, I want to get one that I'll use as much, if not more than the Apron Plane.

I was seriously considering the LV Low Angle Smooth Plane. I'm also not opposed to an offering from LN either. I have never seen any of their planes in person, but I know they are the top quality, as is the LV product.

Is there a different plane I should be looking at? Have I missed something? I know very little about planes, so that's why I'm here to make sure I spend my money in the most intelligent way possible.

Also, what's the difference in the different metals used for the irons? I know the basic difference is how hard they are, which loosely translates in to sharpening frequency, but that's all I know.

I'm really not sure why I love hand planes and chisels so much. There's just something very romantic about using them.

Thanks in advance! SO EXCITED!!!!

[Jim Koepke]

Mike,

Everybody loves to spend other people's money. First it would help to know a bit more about your needs before making usable suggestions.

The Low Angle Smooth Plane would be good for fulfilling a wide array of options. It would be good for smoothing and shooting needs. My preference for smoothing is a bevel down plane with a chip breaker.

For a bevel up plane with wide versatility the Low Angle Jack is hard to beat. Good for shooting end grain and miters. Mine has also served for smoothing boards and panels as well as like a jointer. Mine happens to be an LN #62. The Veritas LA Jack is also a very good plane, some prefer it to the LN.

Here is a post of mine about hand planes from a few years back:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...th-Hand-Planes

There is an addendum at the end about chip breaker settings.

As far as the different metals used in the plane irons goes, I have been impressed by the PMv-11 available on the LV planes. It holds an edge very well and so far is easier to sharpen than A1 or A2. A1 & A2 seem to be more likely to get little chips in the process of dulling. This can leave little tracks on the work. My O1 blades from Hock are very nice blades. The wear pattern is my only befuddlement. The edge doesn't show much sign of wear in use until an attempt is made to take a very thin shaving. It is strange that they will act sharp for a long time but then they need a bit more work to bring them back to a good edge. The trick is to hone them before they get so dull as to require grinding. A1 & A2 is a harder metal to hone.

[Mike Dowell]

Mike,

First it would help to know a bit more about your needs before making usable suggestions.

OK, I figured that would be a good idea - and helpful. I don't intend, at this point, to be flattening large boards. I am potentially looking at investing in a MiniMax 12" jointer/planer for my business. If I have a big board to flatten, it's going on the jointer and planer. What I use my apron plane for are things like trimming end grain such as dowels, or imperfect glue-ups whilst performing repair work on customer furniture. I'm a very 'general purpose' plane user.

My preference for smoothing is a bevel down plane with a chip breaker.

Would you mind saying why? I know very little about planes, and I started reading your article -which is amazing by the way-, but at this point, my knowledge tells me that bevel down planes are more trouble to tune, and requires more experience to set up properly, leaving low angle bevel up planes as a sort of 'set it and forget it, grab and go' type of deal. That might be way off, and if it is, put me in my place.

With little knowledge, I just 'sort of figured' that LV low angle smooth plane would be a good all-purpose plane. I had a guy working for me a while back. He was in his 70's and a retired english cabinet maker. He had a stanley 4 1/2? It was a very traditional plane, and he used it all day long it seemed. He mainly repaired furniture in my shop, and it just seemed like every job he was reaching for that plane. Don't really know what the heck that has to do with this thread, but I figured I'd throw it in there. I actually have a plane like that. It's a Stanley 4 1/4? It was the "shop class" plane I was told. I tried tuning it up watching Youtube and such, and I got it making shavings, but never really understood it's inner workings. Plus, it wasn't a really nice one - not a bed rock, or bailey(can't remember which is the good one).

[Rob Luter]

A LN #4 is hard to beat for all around utility, although good quality Stanleys can be had for cheap and brought to perfect working order with a little work and a Hock blade.

My suggestion would be a Veritas #62 1/2 Low Angle Jack or a Lie-Nielsen #62 Low Angle Jack. Both are excellent tools. I chose the Veritas version and have found it to be extremely versatile. The mouth adjustment screw is very handy, and the screws for lateral blade locking are a very nice feature. I bought all three blades that are available and use it as a shooting plane with the 25 degree blade, a smoother with the 38 degree blade, and a high pitch smoother on difficult grain with the 50 degree blade. The Lie-Nielsen leans towards a more traditional design, and different cutting angle can be ground on their blades as well. Either would be a fine choice.

[Jim Koepke]

Would you mind saying why?

In my experience with the woods used in my shop a bevel down plane with a close set chip breaker seems to do a slightly better job at final smoothing. Beyond that, my preference is to buy and refurbish old used planes. Not many old bevel up planes in my price range.

With little knowledge, I just 'sort of figured' that LV low angle smooth plane would be a good all-purpose plane.

Yes it would. My preference for an "all-purpose plane" would tend toward a jack plane, a #5 size. (Remember, this is only MY preference, no reason to be anyone else's.) It is more suited to all around work. Since you will have a power planer the extra length of a jack plane will likely not be as necessary to your work.

I had a guy working for me a while back. He was in his 70's and a retired english cabinet maker. He had a stanley 4 1/2? It was a very traditional plane, and he used it all day long it seemed.

Some folks do find a favored plane and use it for everything, Paul Sellers promotes that theory with a #4. Some feel the only plane they need is a #7 jointer. To each their own.

I actually have a plane like that. It's a Stanley 4 1/4? It was the "shop class" plane I was told.

My guess would be it is a #5-1/4 which was used a lot in high school shop classes. My two "shop class planes" were chewed up and spit out by years of abusive kids with hormones coursing through their systems. Mine were so much trouble to get working that one of them is used as a scrub plane and the other sits in pieces in a box.

With all you have said the Low Angle Bevel Up Smoother might be your best choice.

jtk

[David M Peters]

I'll throw out a curveball! If you already have a #4-ish plane and it's in working order then perhaps you're good (for now of course) on bench planes; how about you get a router plane? They are versatile little guys and will surprise you with how often they come in handy.

Have fun with your gift money

[Mike Dowell]

@David Peters - wow, that is definitely a curve ball, and one of significance. I do find router planes interesting, but the truth is that my Stanley really isn't in good working order, and I've nor the time or patience to get it that way. Plus, it's kind of a piece of junk. I'm certain there are folks here that have the skill and experience to clean it up and use it, but not me. That's why I bought a Powermatic Cabinet Saw, and not a less expensive brand/model. I Was paying for the features so that I didn't have to make up for them with skill level. I digress.

OK, I'm sort of torn here. I'm going to mention only LV products since LN has all the same/equivalents, it's just easier to mention what I know.

My 3 horses in the running as of right now:

LV Low Angle Smooth
LV #4
LV 62 1/2 Jack

And, actually one more... what's wrong with getting an already restored stanley?


Of the smooth planes, I tend toward the bevel up, because as I said earlier, they just seem easier to operate, or, if I dare, a bit more "idiot proof". That's based *almost* on nothing, so please tell me if I'm completely missing the boat here. I do see that Paul Sellers exclusively recommends bevel up planes. I just get so lost on how to set the chip breaker, and why it needs to be set a certain way, etc. Paul says on his blog that he likes to teach "technique to deal with different tasks rather than switching out irons". Now on to the second question. Why a Jack plane over a Smooth plane? Seems like the difference is 5" of sole.

OK, I forgot that I actually have a third question which is relevant. When using a shooting board, what keeps the blade from digging into the shooting board?

[Mike Henderson]

This is a bit off topic, but if you want a "full sized" block plane, get a used Stanley low angle block plane and put a new LV PM-V11 blade in it. I like the Stanley 65 knuckle joint block planes but that's just me. There are other "full sized" Stanley low angle block planes that are equally good.

Mike

[Regarding your shooting board question, in the planes used with a shooting board, the blade does not go fully across the body of the plane. So the first time you use the shooting board, you will take a small cut into the board. But after that, the space on the side of the blade will run against the shooting board and keep the blade from cutting into the board.

There are planes where the blade goes completely across the sole (or body) and you can't use those on a shooting board. An example is the Stanley 10 (if I remember my planes correctly).]

[Mike Dowell]

[Regarding your shooting board question, in the planes used with a shooting board, the blade does not go fully across the body of the plane. So the first time you use the shooting board, you will take a small cut into the board. But after that, the space on the side of the blade will run against the shooting board and keep the blade from cutting into the board.
There are planes where the blade goes completely across the sole (or body) and you can't use those on a shooting board. An example is the Stanley 10 (if I remember my planes correctly).]

ok, now I understand - fully. So when you make a shooting board, really, you have to shoot it a couple times first as part of the setup. right? Also, I did not know irons were interchangeable. That is to say, I figured the Veritas iron was specifically for their planes.

[Mike Henderson]

ok, now I understand - fully. So when you make a shooting board, really, you have to shoot it a couple times first as part of the setup. right? Also, I did not know irons were interchangeable. That is to say, I figured the Veritas iron was specifically for their planes.

A lot of people make replacement irons for the Stanley planes. The Veritas plane(s) may use a unique iron and you may have to purchase those irons from Lee Valley. But Stanley - lots of choices.

Mike

[Jim Koepke]

[edit]
OK, I'm sort of torn here. I'm going to mention only LV products since LN has all the same/equivalents, it's just easier to mention what I know.

My 3 horses in the running as of right now:

LV Low Angle Smooth
LV #4
LV 62 1/2 Jack

And, actually one more... what's wrong with getting an already restored stanley?


Of the smooth planes, I tend toward the bevel up, because as I said earlier, they just seem easier to operate, or, if I dare, a bit more "idiot proof". That's based *almost* on nothing, so please tell me if I'm completely missing the boat here. I do see that Paul Sellers exclusively recommends bevel up planes. I just get so lost on how to set the chip breaker, and why it needs to be set a certain way, etc. Paul says on his blog that he likes to teach "technique to deal with different tasks rather than switching out irons". Now on to the second question. Why a Jack plane over a Smooth plane? Seems like the difference is 5" of sole.

OK, I forgot that I actually have a third question which is relevant. When using a shooting board, what keeps the blade from digging into the shooting board?

Though the plane you link is a nice looking plane and likely a great user it seems a bit high priced. Besides, you will still have the same problem of setting the chip breaker the first time you need to sharpen the blade. For some it is second nature, for others it is as confounding as understanding women. The simplicity of the LV bevel up planes is a few less moving parts to cause confusion.

The 5" of extra sole tend to keep the plane from following the "hills and valleys" of the surface of a board or panel to be smoothed. For cleaning up any roughness left by a powered planer the short sole might be a little easier for such tasks.

Mike Henderson gave an excellent answer to your shooting board question, no need for my comments.

jtk

[Roy Lindberry]

Of the smooth planes, I tend toward the bevel up, because as I said earlier, they just seem easier to operate, or, if I dare, a bit more "idiot proof". That's based *almost* on nothing, so please tell me if I'm completely missing the boat here. I do see that Paul Sellers exclusively recommends bevel up planes. I just get so lost on how to set the chip breaker, and why it needs to be set a certain way, etc. Paul says on his blog that he likes to teach "technique to deal with different tasks rather than switching out irons". Now on to the second question. Why a Jack plane over a Smooth plane? Seems like the difference is 5" of sole.

Overall, they are a bit easier to use, though lateral adjustment takes practice on the bevel up jack (at least the LN), since there is no mechanical adjuster.

Additionally, if you are looking for a "smoothing" plane (used to leave smooth, finish read surfaces), then realize that a bevel up iron takes more work to get enough camber to keep from leaving tracks on the wood. That is the reason I prefer bevel down for smoothing, bevel up for shooting.

[Derek Cohen]

Mike, I believe that the Veritas Low Angle Smoother (LAS) is exactly what you want. It is indeed a "point-and-shoot" plane - extremely easy to set up, and has predictable and excellent results. Using a BD plane with a chipbreaker, such as a Stanley #4, does require more effort. At the end of the day, both planes are capable of superb performance.

The LAS is best set up with a 38- or 50 degree bevel for smoothing difficult grain. With a 25 degree bevel it works well on a shooting board. I would recommend only purchasing the blades with a 25 degree bevel from Lee Valley, and then adding a secondary bevel of your choice with a honing guide. This is the easiest way to prepare a BU plane blade, and the most efficient way if you plan to camber blades for a smoother. The 25 degree blade for shooting is not cambered. Lastly, get the PM-V11 blades if you can afford them. They are worth it in the long run - better edge holding and a finer edge.

I think that you will get more use out of this plane than a router plane, which can come later.

Enjoy your new purchase.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[James Pallas]

I would suggest the LVLA Jack. Great shooting board plane. If you are getting a good jointer/planer chances are you could use it as a smoother also. Good on end grain work. Great as a short jointer. Get all three blades and maybe even a toothed blade in PMV11 (they are worth it). Since you won't need it as a jack plane no need for a really heavy camber on any blades. If you haven't guessed yet, I have one and couldn't be happier with it. The only other plane I would suggest in its place would be the LV rabbet Jack. No shooting plane, but Derek C. figured out how to make it work as such.
Jim

[Mike Dowell]

Can you hit long grain with a standard angle plane?

I'm really having a difficult time with this decision because in one hand, I know the standard angle planes are very "versatile". On the other hand, the LA planes are versatile as well, but I don't like the idea of having to purchase multiple irons. Especially given the fact that I don't even know why one angle performs well on certain tasks, and other angles are needed for other tasks.