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Thread: Any HVAC people here for a mini split question?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Fort Wayne IN
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    1,210

    Any HVAC people here for a mini split question?

    Well the HVAC technician today confirmed that there is a freon leak in the mini split in my garage/workshop. Brrrr - trying to work out there here in Indiana. The unit is only two years old and will not produce heat when the freon gets to low. He said he cannot troubleshoot and fix the leak until spring when it warms up. He said the freon cannot be charged when it gets to cold. SERIOUSLY? Is this true? Can anyone confirm?

    Thanks and Enjoy your warm shops.
    Sometimes decisions from the heart are better than decisions from the brain.

    Enjoy Life...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    The Hartland of Michigan
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    7,628
    True. Seriously.
    Never, under any circumstances, consume a laxative and sleeping pill, on the same night

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    North Florida
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    22
    Im not a tech but thought these were mostly charged by weight. What prevents that from working in the cold?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ada, Oklahoma
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    443
    Can't answer your question directly, but as Jim said they are charged by weight. When the one we had installed wasn't cooling this summer, they had to drain the charge and refill it by weight. Not sure why that couldn't be done in the winter.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Fort Wayne IN
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    The technician said that the freon tends to freeze in the cold and will not pump into the system. So I wonder what happens to people that have these mini splits in living spaces.

    This really SUCKS. Thanks for nothing some company( guess I should not mention mfg. here ) TOS?
    Last edited by Raymond Fries; 12-30-2016 at 10:42 PM. Reason: removed company name
    Sometimes decisions from the heart are better than decisions from the brain.

    Enjoy Life...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Upland CA
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    5,548
    No expert, but when mine was installed I was told that it would not be very efficient at heating during cold weather. No big deal for me, since I got it for the AC function mostly.
    Rick Potter

    DIY journeyman,
    FWW wannabe.
    AKA Village Idiot.

  7. #7
    Sounds to me like your mini-split is a heat pump. If not, it has electric heat which means it can be trouble-shot. Call the manufacturer. Good luck.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    E TN, near Knoxville
    Posts
    12,298

    artificial spring?

    Interesting issue. The only thing I know about heat pumps is I installed the one in my shop. I live in a usually warmer part of the country but I know heat pumps are installed in the winter so why can't they be serviced in the winter?

    Sir Google gave me a number of things to read when I asked "can freon in heat pump be recharged in winter". Nothing I saw with quick look said "no way, no how". These words on a forum thread were repeated: "weigh it in". The consensus seemed to be it is difficult, slow and probably expensive due to the time involved, but not impossible. Some said instead to get the weight right the remaining freon in the system should first be removed, adding to the cost.

    One article you might read is says this:
    "One of the hardest procedures involving heat pumps is charging in the winter. Most manufacturers recommend charging split systems by weight."
    http://www.graycoolingman.com/chargi...heat-pump.html
    This guy has how-to videos for service guys but I didn't watch them.

    You might study on this a little then call another HVAC doctor for a second opinion.

    One thing that comes to my mind: When building my shop I hired some guys to pour and surface the concrete in the dead of winter, well below freezing. I had the support posts the roof up but no walls. To get the temperature more reasonable for the finishing we wrapped tarps and plastic around the building (I have big rolls of poly) and heated the space with a couple of those job site kerosene heaters that look and sound like a jet engine. This took awhile but it brought up the temps and they got the job done.

    I am certainly not an HVAC consultant but that experience makes me wonder if as a last resort you could construct a temporary walk-in shelter around the outside unit using 2x4s and tarps and use one of those big heaters to blow heat into that space to bring springtime to the equipment, perhaps and also use some kind of temporary heater inside the shop if it is necessary to warm the inside unit and lines too.

    JKJ

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Long Island N.Y.
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    521
    "The technician said that the freon tends to freeze in the cold and will not pump into the system. So I wonder what happens to people that have these mini splits in living spaces."

    So much misinformation that it's a wonder some of these idiots are even still in business.

    Firstly, refrigerant in today's modern ductless systems is weighed in with very few exceptions. The remaining refrigerant is recovered, the system pressurized with nitrogen, the leak found and repaired, the system is properly evacuated to 250-500 microns, and a fresh charge of refrigerant is weighed in using an accurate calibrated digital scale.

    Secondly, "freon" (incorrect term) is not pumped into the system. It flows due to the pressure differential between the system and the refrigerant drum. While it's true that the pressure in the refrigerant drum drops as the ambient temperature drops, there are ways to keep the drum warm while charging.

    The HVAC company referenced in this thread sounds totally incompetent. Do yourself a favor and hire a professional.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Medina Ohio
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    4,516
    When I worked in the home building industry we had heat pumps installed in the winter and charged all the time. Don't know why a split system would be any different

  11. #11
    I run an hvac company. Call someone else. It can be charged in the winter if you know what you are doing.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Fort Wayne IN
    Posts
    1,210
    Well the company that is doing the "warranty" work is the company that installed it. I paid $99 for the service call and the MFG. will cover parts. If the technician cannot deliver, guess it might be time to cut the losses and find someone else that can do warranty work. The technician believes it might be a leak in the coil.

    Thanks for all of the tips, feedback, and suggestions.
    Sometimes decisions from the heart are better than decisions from the brain.

    Enjoy Life...

  13. #13
    95% of the ones that leak are on the flared connections. I almost guarantee that's where your leak is.

  14. #14
    I ran into the same thing and it was winter and cold. My HVAC guy had a warming blanket thing he wrapped around the freon tank before charging the system. It is amazing the heat you can get from a mini-split. I will be putting one in my new shop that is getting built in 2017.

    Red
    RED

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Fort Wayne IN
    Posts
    1,210
    Well I called the HVAC company today to report that the unit quit working 3 hours after the technician left last Friday afternoon. it was working just fine when he left. I was told that it needed to be between 60 and 70 degrees for a leak test to be performed? So I replied "So you are expecting me to live without heat in my workshop for 3 to 4 months until it warms up?" I was put on hold. she came back with a technician will. Be at your home in a few hours. I thought great this will finally get fixed.

    The technician showed up and did not have the correct fittings to do a leak test. And then the unit started working just fine when powered up. It has been working fine for about 5 hours now. Going to let it run all night to see it it cuts out when it gets cold. Supposed to get into the 20's tonight.

    Will keep you posted.
    Sometimes decisions from the heart are better than decisions from the brain.

    Enjoy Life...

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