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Thread: Unusual (?) American Chestnut

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    E TN, near Knoxville
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    2,755

    Magnifier for wood ID

    Quote Originally Posted by Morey St. Denis View Post
    Oh yeah, it's Box Eder beyond much doubt. ...definitive visual information to identify this particular wood if you have access to a microscope...
    Actually, you just need a hand lens and not a microscope. This is my favorite, good lens, built-in LED lights, and inexpensive! (I bought several of these for the shop - handy in the machine shop, around wood, for splinters...):

    magnifier.jpg
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CMDIOBK

    Hoadley recommends a 10x magnifier. The guy at the Wood Database says 10x is ideal but anything from 8x-15x is suitable.
    http://www.wood-database.com/wood-ar...ication-guide/

    I do use a microscope just because I have one on my desk. Note that most microscopes do not have a low enough power to be useful; I couldn't use my laboratory microscopes unless I wanted to look at the cells! The one I use is a low-power stereo microscope, 15x at the lowest power.

    JKJ

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Milton, Tn
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    51
    Box Elder for sure. Have plenty of it myself.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Toronto, CA
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    263
    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    Here is some scientific research on the red stain: https://www.plantmanagementnetwork.o...arch/redstain/ I didn't study it but from scanning it looks like the conclusion is the stain is caused microorganisms following damage by insect or other wounds, a non-specific response thought to be the tree's defense against further damage by fungus. The Wood Database also describes this.

    The red does fade fairly rapidly, although some seem to last much longer. Lissi Oland gave me some wood from a box elder root system that has stayed red longer than any other I've seen:

    JKJ
    Is this related to Manitoba Maple? Because the red stain looks almost identical.


    A few months ago, my neighbour knocked on my door and said she was cutting down a big one. Did I want the wood?


    Absolutely!


    My first pieces were cut with it sopping wet. The wood cut like butter, very nice consistent grain, but white as can be and boring. I stained the first one red in frustration.

    IMG_1612.jpg


    The second large bowl was coated in anchor seal and stored for drying. After a month the red patterns formed and it may look really nice.
    I assume its a fungus (or reaction to) that specific to the wood species.


    But the colors have not penetrated very deep so far.

    Daniel - Beautiful wood on your bowl

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    lufkin tx
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    1,771
    Manitoba Maple is just another common name--hence the reason for scientific names. Same as Box Elder for sure which is a true Maple to confuse things even more.




    Bob Baccus ------ Peon in Friday Morning Woodturners Group.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    E TN, near Knoxville
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olaf Vogel View Post
    Is this related to Manitoba Maple? Because the red stain looks almost identical...
    From the Wood Database page on Box Elder ( http://www.wood-database.com/box-elder/ ):
    "Scientific Name: Acer negundo
    Common Name(s): Box Elder, Boxelder Maple, Manitoba Maple, Ash-leaved Maple"


    The page mentions the fungus as well.

    I like the looks of it but it is really soft compared to other maples that grow here.

    JKJ

  6. #21
    Box Elder is considered by many to be a "trash tree" in that the branches have a hollow pith, are weak, and break easily and the seeds sprout easily EVERYWHERE! It is terribly soft and doesn't seem to store well in my experience. I have had some get dry rot.

  7. #22
    Gentlemen, Thanks again for all the information! I really do appreciate it. I have a jewelers loupe, and that is how I looked at the end grain. I also have access to microscopes, but after looking with the loupe, it was obvious it was not chestnut. The only issue I have now is my wife, who loves the bowl, will still not let me bring it in the house! I put 3 coats of Tung Oil on it, and my better half is VERY sensitive to odors. The bowl is still sitting in my work shop where it will stay until the odor dies down... If anyone knows of a way to speed up this process, please tell me. This piece was my first try at turning, and the piece of wood I chose to use was one of the final pieces I salvaged. It was a piece of scrap to learn on... It will be interesting to see if the wood I thought would be really nice is any better. Thanks again!
    Danny

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Atikokan, Rainy River district, Ontario
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    3,184
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Metz View Post
    Gentlemen, Thanks again for all the information! I really do appreciate it. I have a jewelers loupe, and that is how I looked at the end grain. I also have access to microscopes, but after looking with the loupe, it was obvious it was not chestnut. The only issue I have now is my wife, who loves the bowl, will still not let me bring it in the house! I put 3 coats of Tung Oil on it, and my better half is VERY sensitive to odors. The bowl is still sitting in my work shop where it will stay until the odor dies down... If anyone knows of a way to speed up this process, please tell me. This piece was my first try at turning, and the piece of wood I chose to use was one of the final pieces I salvaged. It was a piece of scrap to learn on... It will be interesting to see if the wood I thought would be really nice is any better. Thanks again!
    Danny
    What “Tung Oil” did you use Dan, or was it “Tung Oil Finish”, also you say 3 coats, in what time did you apply that, I mean time between coats, your shop is held at what temperature ??


    Have fun and take care

  9. #24
    Leo, I used Behr "Tung Oil Finish". The 3 coats were applied as per the instructions, at one hour intervals. My shop temperature? My home "shop" where I do the turning is my basement that is not temperature controlled. The temps in the basement since the finish was applied range from 55-65*F. I should also mention the Tung oil finish I used has been in my shop for over 10 years... When I opened it, it looked and smelled just as I remembered it. It does not go bad does it? Thanks! Danny

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Atikokan, Rainy River district, Ontario
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    3,184
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Metz View Post
    Leo, I used Behr "Tung Oil Finish". The 3 coats were applied as per the instructions, at one hour intervals. My shop temperature? My home "shop" where I do the turning is my basement that is not temperature controlled. The temps in the basement since the finish was applied range from 55-65*F. I should also mention the Tung oil finish I used has been in my shop for over 10 years... When I opened it, it looked and smelled just as I remembered it. It does not go bad does it? Thanks! Danny
    I was afraid off that, about the so called Tung Oil Finish, this stuff has no Tung Oil in it, to get around that they Lying , they add the word “finish" behind the Tung Oil, and if you ask the makers, they will tell you that this stuff will make it LOOK LIKE a Tung Oil finish.

    Yes real Tung Oil will Polymerize by reaction with the air, to keep it from doing that you will have to eliminate or minimize the contact with air, I pour the Tung Oil into a glass bottle filled right to the top, after using some of the oil I add water to the bottle.

    Oil does float on water and so you can keep the bottle full very easily, the bottle I use is a re-closable Beer bottle, and I have done this for at least 20 years and have never had a problem with that.

    Tung oil does have to polymerize before you can add another coat, and that does take a while, if you add another coat before that, the first coat will not get the needed air contact and will then not fully harden up for a very long time if ever.

    For that reason I buy what is called Polymerized Tung Oil, it has been heated at quite a high temperature without any air, by doing this the Tung Oil gets too thick to use easily, so a volatile thinner is added which will evaporate quite quickly and the Polymerized Tung Oil will then harden in about 8 Hrs if the temperature and humidity is right, too cold and it will not happen, but temps above 60F will work fine, below 40F it doesn’t, I normally leave it just overnight before adding the next coat.

    I get my Polymerized Tung Oil from Lee Valley.

    Behrs MSDS info
    ingredients.jpg Hazards.jpg

    Just to add here, Minwax does the same thing, and sells Tung Oil Finish, and things like Teak Oil finish, so you better find out what you really buy, pull the MSDS sheets up and read all of it, or never buy from these Companies.
    Last edited by Leo Van Der Loo; 01-08-2017 at 12:38 PM.


    Have fun and take care

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    E TN, near Knoxville
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    Lying to sell something

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo Van Der Loo View Post
    I was afraid off that, about the so called Tung Oil Finish, this stuff has no Tung Oil in it, to get around that they Lying , they add the word “finish" behind the Tung Oil
    Shame on them. I understand the "Danish" oil label is also a bit misleading.

    Honey producers also have been known to lie. They used to label a mix of honey and corn syrup and/or sugar as "Honey". Some even claimed "Pure honey" or "Natural honey." After a crackdown by the US FDA they are now supposed to label this junk as "Honey Blend". A lot of the grocery store honey is a blend. I don't know how it is handled in Canada.

    Even if it is real honey I would hesitate to buy it from the grocery store. Much of it comes from China and much has be found to contain high levels of pesticides. I remember when inspectors rejected one contaminated shipload on the east coast but the importers somehow got it in through New Orleans. The importers do tricks to get around the bad reputation of Chinese honey such as ship to Argentina and then import it into the US as Argentine honey.

    Since honey can be fingerprinted by analyzing the pollen it contains, the Chinese have also heated and filtered out all the pollen. Unfortunately, heating also destroys the beneficial enzymes and taste.

    I saw another misleading label once. Since Sourwood honey is desired by some, one company called itself the Sourwood Honey company and labeled it's non-sourwood honey as Sourwood Honey. Good grief.

    BTW, for the best honey buy local. Look for "raw, unheated, unprocessed" honey.

    JKJ

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