Thin pins..

[Patrick Walsh]

I dont know what i was thinking laying my pins dovetails out so that my pins would be so small. I started doing my layout and just went with it figuring it would be a good challenge.

So now the questions. I cut my tails first. I then marked my tails for the pins with a Blue Spuce marking knife.mi found it very very hard to reference the edge of my tails. At this point i already began to have concerns how acurate my pins would end up.

Well as expected they turned out a bit small in places.

So the question is when doing dovetails this tight that result in such a thin pin how do people accuately transfer their marks. I began to think that this may be a case where pins first makes sense?

[Patrick Walsh]

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[Derek Cohen]

Hi Patrick

Cleary you have not paid attention to my posts!

This is one of the reasons for using blue tape - you only need to make one stroke with the knife, not repeatedly. Below is an extract from an article on my website:




The top (only) of the pin board is covered in blue tape (note that there is an uncovered section in the photo above. This will be sawn away here as this drawer front is curved).


Score the top baseline for the pins with a cutting gauge. The line will be easily seen against the tape.





Add a line of tape at the lower baseline.







Now turn the pin board around to transfer the measurements from the tails.


I use a wide chisel as a straight edge to align the sides.





For transferring the lines, the only marking knife I have that fits in the saw kerf (while riding flush against the dovetail wall) is the Vesper thin “Cohen” knife. A Stanley knife may work as well, but note that it has a slight double bevel (will not cut flush with the wall).


One advantage of the blue tape is that only one knife score is required, in contrast to the repeated score marks on bare wood, which is often necessary to create an indelible line.



Peel away the tape from the waste sections. Drop pencil or knife lines from the dovetail to the lower base line.







It is much easier to saw against the tape with a contrast this distinct.

Reference: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HalfBlindDovetailswithBlueTape.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I often do this myself..... I stole the idea from Derek...

[Patrick Walsh]

Crap i need another tool to master yet another task. The "Cohen Vespar thin knife" what is one to do.

All jokes aside thank you for the guidance. I will update as i make progress. It will be slow as i also have a full kitchen of beaded face frame cabinetts and doors and drawers to build. I was going to do a applied beaded moulding but i have decided on just jack mitering everything together and putting the bead right on the stiles and rails.

Also i was going to order all the doors and drawers and just make the carcasses and face frames and instal hardware. The customer has now decided he wants me to build everything. I kinda dont know what i was thinking even startinging this other cabinet with the thin pins.

Guess i just need something that required exacting work to keep me inspired?

[Brian Holcombe]

Ask him if he wants thin pinned dovetails for his kitchen cabinet drawers. That will give you plenty of practice...

When you cut them for drawers, the drawer sides are significantly thinner than that case material, that makes it much easier to transfer the mark. I would cut thicker pins for a case, especially if they're through dovetails. If you need a challenge then miter the outside corners

[David Eisenhauer]

Geez guys, those are some thin pins. My sawing is not up to that at this point.

[Andrew Hughes]

I like pins first.I try to lay thing out so my Dt chisel fits the widest part or the pin.
I also like having room for my thin paring chisels if I need to work on the tails.
No silly blue tape needed.
I can't believe your still pushing blue tape Derek thats so yesterday.

[Patrick Walsh]

I wish i could get payed to hand cut 30 some odd drawers worth of dovetails. Sadly i will use a dovetail jig and a router.

I figured thicker pins would be best for a cabinet like i am building. Really im just building the cabinet because i cant sit still and as said i need a challenge to keep me my head into carpentry. Its also nice to build something for myself as i never really get to.

Day in and day out i execute so many carpentry based tasks in all i can describe as sadly sub par manner. I work on high end custom homes and am for the most part a finish carpenter. Being a employee though it is what is expected of me if i want to keep my job. Its a fine line between doing a bad job and too good a job.

Now if i could just find some time to get back to this case. If anyone wants to walk me through sliding dovetails with hand tools for the dividers i wouldn't be offended. Im considering routing them as im kinda broke to be going and buying a special plane to do them this way. Tempt me and just maybe i find a way to dig into the piggy bank.

As much as i enjoy woodworking machinery nothing offeres the therapeutic value of a marking gauge a saw and a chisel.

Ask him if he wants thin pinned dovetails for his kitchen cabinet drawers. That will give you plenty of practice...

When you cut them for drawers, the drawer sides are significantly thinner than that case material, that makes it much easier to transfer the mark. I would cut thicker pins for a case, especially if they're through dovetails. If you need a challenge then miter the outside corners

[Brian Holcombe]

I have some sliding dovetail walk throughs on my blog, the most recent of which was part if the tsuridana series, it's easily transferred to case dividers.

There must be a temple carpenter or timber framer in your area.

[David Eisenhauer]

Also, in addition to Brian's stuff, the guy from Texas Heritage woodworks has a You Tube out on sliding dovetails by hand.

[Robert Hazelwood]

Patrick, I've found the transferring from tails to pins to be the most troublesome part of dovetailing. I tried Derek's blue tape method recently and it does help. As for marking knives, veritas makes some cheap plastic-handled ones that have very thin blades, and will work for skinny pins.

[Robert Engel]

@Patrick, like all things DT's its a matter of pref and practice, but IMO pins first will provide more accurate marking and less frustration. Works on 1/2 blinds, too.

I am not a fan of routers and jigs. Cutting the tails on the TS with a flat top blade ground to 7 degrees and tilted 7 degrees (or whatever < you want) works great and is extremely fast if you do several drawers at once, plus they are all symmetric. Downside: can't get those pinpoint pins tho using a thin kerf blade will get close. I do pins by hand. Its really about as fast as a router and jig and I can space the pins however I want.

@Robert, a shallow rabbet on the tail board to register against is quite handy in marking the pins.

[lowell holmes]

I have to ask.

Do the thin pin dove tails ever fail?

[Patrick Walsh]

Thanks for the tips. I will have to give the TS meathod a try. Really i shoudl just purchase the drawer boxes for the kitchen build.

This thin pin thing if for a personal project, just a simple dovetailed carcass. The drawers are a seprate thing. My fault for muddying the waters.

@Patrick, like all things DT's its a matter of pref and practice, but IMO pins first will provide more accurate marking and less frustration. Works on 1/2 blinds, too.

I am not a fan of routers and jigs. Cutting the tails on the TS with a flat top blade ground to 7 degrees and tilted 7 degrees (or whatever < you want) works great and is extremely fast if you do several drawers at once, plus they are all symmetric. Downside: can't get those pinpoint pins tho using a thin kerf blade will get close. I do pins by hand. Its really about as fast as a router and jig and I can space the pins however I want.

@Robert, a shallow rabbet on the tail board to register against is quite handy in marking the pins.