I know some famous studio out here near me also uses the tablesaw approach. It works nicely for heavy cases as well, and it's a little sexier than a router jig.
Contributor
I know some famous studio out here near me also uses the tablesaw approach. It works nicely for heavy cases as well, and it's a little sexier than a router jig.
Bumbling forward into the unknown.
Contributor
I use the blue tape technique, also. For transferring the tails to the pins, I have some thin metal strips that I sharpened on one side of the end (meaning single bevel) and I come straight down on the side of the tail to mark the location. The metal is a bit thinner than some of the cheap thin pocket rules, which would also probably work if you sharpened one to a single bevel.
Mike
Last edited by Mike Henderson; 01-03-2017 at 2:51 PM.
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
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No one answered. Do the thin pin dovetails fail?
It seems to me they would.
Contributor
Don't know that any tests have been done on strongest with a five year old jumping on them but all are strong enough. The sizes have been mainly accepted styles . Real early stuff has large ,later stuff has small, then they went to medium. If you are making something that is in a period style the dovetails usually follow that tradition. We modern designers are free to choose.
Contributor
Dovetails are pretty strong. I've made furniture with fairly thin pins and never had a problem, and I've seen work by very good furniture makers with very thin pins on drawers. I doubt if they would do it if the joint would fail. Extremely thin pins are mostly a "show off" thing.Originally Posted by lowell holmes
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Contributor
I suppose that the first question to ask is..... how much weaker is a thin pin than a thick pin. If these are too small, of course they will fail, but, how much stress will be applied in a direction that is likely to fail? Also, if the dovetail is used in a box, then the other three corners will help lend strength. Sounds like an excuse to create a dovetail a day with ever decreasing pins and then perform a few tests.
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Apparently they do not fail, at least no one has experienced it if they do.
I suppose I will have to try them and see how it works. Thx.
Member
Thin pins are the hardest to cut because they leave little room for error in your paring of them. That said, whatever you decide:
1. Don't use your project wood to practice a new technique.
2. Cut some dovetails on scrap just before you try the finished ones. If it just isn't happening that day, don't do them that day.
[OP]
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Well my plan this weekedend was to get the carcass finished that i started last week.
My motivating factor for this build was mostly to make some beaded face frames. I hav a rather large paint grade kitchen cab build i need to start this week. Having never made beaded face frames before i figured why not gain some practice and build myself something nice. Well try and build something nice.
The kitchen build will just be painted baltic birch, no dovetails except maybe the top drawers of the lowers cabinets.
The thin pins did jot come out perfect but also not bad i guess. I am sure on i plane everything together they will look pretty sharp. I ended up using Dereks blue tape trick and it really helped. I need to order a thin knife from Chris Vesper as my Blue spruce one will just not fit in the thinnest portion or top of the tail.
The beaded face frame i did on a shaper and router table with a Kreg notching bit. This was also a learning experience. The first thing i learnt is that i really gotta stop working with this garbage cheap imitation mahogany as it is very brittle and prone to tear out. The stuff really is crap compared to the real stuff.
The door style and rails will be more African Mahogany, the pannels will be solid 1/4 or 1/2 birdseye maple. The drawer fronts will be birdseye and the same with the back pannel. I plan to use this to store some of my hand tools.
I have about 12-14hrs into this right now. It really makes me wonder how long something like this would take a proficient furniture maker.
Also threw in a pic of the French cleat stuff i started making a couple weeks ago for my shaper tooling and accessories. I got one coat of epoxy on the some of the pieces. This was also my first time using epoxy for anything other than laying up firberglass. not sure how i feel about it yet. I plan to finish the pieces off with spar varnish or Waterlox.
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[OP]
Guest
Member
Blue tape is ok for those starting out or struggling, as in this case of London-style pins. It is an aid I would highly recommend for learners and those whose eye sights are failing them.I like pins first.I try to lay thing out so my Dt chisel fits the widest part or the pin.
I also like having room for my thin paring chisels if I need to work on the tails.
No silly blue tape needed.
I can't believe your still pushing blue tape Derek thats so yesterday.
The best, inexpensive knife for this type of transfer is what Paul Sellers has recommended: the Swann Morton knife. Search his blog for his review.
Simon
Contributor
Nicely done Patrick!
Bumbling forward into the unknown.
[OP]
Guest
Thank you, ill go take a look right now..
If the knife could register within the pins this would not be a problem. Mt problem is being anble to register the "tip" of my marking knife into the very top and very bottom of the tails. In the end i just played a game of connect the dotswith a straight edge before sawing away.
[OP]
Guest
Why thank you Brian. I'm not sure i deserve the exclamation point but it sure does feel good after a few trying moments.
I love a opportunity like this to press through a challenge. Really what i like about something like "thin pins" or brittle crap lumber it as it forces my brain to slow down and focus only my task at hand for hours on end. It is so theraputic....
Now i gotta figure out how i want to attach that face frame? Being the cab is stain grade the "hack finish carpenter" in me cant just resort to pocket screws. I am considering a floating tennon, glue and a bunch of clamps but at the same time not really feeling that approach either. It feels like a very Ikea solution to me and half like cheating.
I am considering a rebate along the entire outside edge of the face frame that will register perfectly with the carcass. Im a littel concerned about blowout though as this lumber is just junk. What to do what to do?
Wish i had that Philly Planes dovetail plane you suggested to cut the dado for the shelf and drawer divider. Instead ill have to resort to a router bit. Or their small rebate plane or that moving philister or however you spell it. Crap what i would give to be wealthy. I could easily drop $5K in one fell swoop on just hand planes from him alone.
QUOTE=Brian Holcombe;2643972]Nicely done Patrick![/QUOTE]
[OP]
Guest
My day started with a little party.
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Now that i was well primed i was ready to get into something..
With the legs for my bench build hogging most of my clamps i needed to find a way to kill some time while my laminations sat in the clamps a bit longer. I know overnight was enough time but id rather be safe than sorry.
I had a pile of birdseye i had been milling up to near final dimension over the last couple weeks. The BEM will be laminatd to make the back pannel for the above cabinet.
image.jpg
First some layout.
The pictures of my laminations to follow may look like i did a terrible job grain and color matching. I used specific boards for specific parts of the case that will and will not be seen when finished. The case with have two drawers across the bottom with two doors above. When you open the doors there will be 2 rows of drawers 3" high directly atop the two drawers on thenoutside. I think both rows of the lower interior drawers will be comprised by five drawers total. There will then be a number of shelfs for hand planes followed by one more row of 3" drawers up high on the interior of case followed by another shelf. I chose to hide certain boards behind these drawers. I tried to use B and C grade lumber for the back panel.
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Gotta eat dinner ill finish later..
Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 01-27-2017 at 9:39 PM.
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