Ryoba tenon cut problems

[Eric R. Smith]

I recently purchased this Ryoba Nakaya Reiji off the auction site from a man in Japan. It cuts crosscut great. When I used it to cut the cheeks of a tenon it drifts on the far side of the cut, even after I cut down the line on the far side first.
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This is my first Japanese saw and it is mostly likely user error.
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As you can see its SYP, so from what I read this saw should be ok for what I'm using it for. Does anyone have any pointers or suggestions. I tried numerous times with the same results after making adjustments with my stance and the mechanics of my draw.
Thanks in advance for your responses,
Eric Smith

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I am very interested in responses...

A question first... Do I understand correctly that if you make a crosscut the saw does NOT drift, only when you cut into the end grain for a tenon shoulder?

When a western saw drifts, that usually means that the set is different on one side than another. I have seen this fixed using a few different methods (such as running a file along one side or using a vice with a few sheets of paper to bend some teeth back). This does not work with hardened teeth I am guessing. I think that Japanese saws usually have hardened teeth.

[john zulu]

What method do you use to saw? It the tip of the blade pointing down? When the blade is being pulled? https://i1.wp.com/granitemountainwoo...7/IMAG0855.jpg

[Eric R. Smith]

Andrew, I have not made very deep cross cuts yet, 3/4" is the deepest and the saw cuts very straight and clean.

John, I have been starting my cut with the saw cutting across the end grain then working my way down the tenon with the piece of wood pointing away from me at an angle. So the saw is horizontal but the the wood is angled, if that make sense.

[john zulu]

Andrew, I have not made very deep cross cuts yet, 3/4" is the deepest and the saw cuts very straight and clean.

John, I have been starting my cut with the saw cutting across the end grain then working my way down the tenon with the piece of wood pointing away from me at an angle. So the saw is horizontal but the the wood is angled, if that make sense.

Eric.Is the stock clamped into a western vise mounted to the table? For japanese saw we cannot cut horizontal as there is no spine behind the blade. The blade will flex. To stop the flex the blade end must be pointing down.... Check this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN7TD0hN6fI

If all fails then grove the wood so there is a track on the wood for the blade to follow. It will act as a guide. The blade will follow the grove itself. Similar technique for western saws.

[Brian Holcombe]

Brian or anyone else with ryoba experience: Any comment on one vs two hands holding the saw?

I prefer to use two hands, the saw seems to stay on track better with two hands.

[Brian Holcombe]

Eric.Is the stock clamped into a western vise mounted to the table? For japanese saw we cannot cut horizontal as there is no spine behind the blade. The blade will flex. To stop the flex the blade end must be pointing down.... Check this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN7TD0hN6fI

If all fails then grove the wood so there is a track on the wood for the blade to follow. It will act as a guide. The blade will follow the grove itself. Similar technique for western saws.

You mean like this;

[john zulu]

You mean like this;

That is also another method but there must be a kerf for this cut.

[Derek Cohen]

It cuts crosscut great. When I used it to cut the cheeks of a tenon it drifts on the far side of the cut, even after I cut down the line on the far side first.

Hi Eric

The saw is drifting with the grain. This cannot occur when sawing across the grain. So the question is 'why does it drift with the grain?'

The likelihood is that the blade is twisting, and this is more likely to occur if you begin sawing on the far side .. where you first use the toe of the saw plate. The toe end of the plate has the greatest flex. If you keep sawing using the toe end of the saw, the absence of a saw back will place the plate at risk for twisting.

The solution may be as simple as ensuring that the kerf is created with the heel of the saw, and that you keep that end buried as much as possible.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Eric R. Smith]

The solution may be as simple as ensuring that the kerf is created with the heel of the saw, and that you keep that end buried as much as possible.

Regards from Perth

Derek[/QUOTE]

Derek, That makes sense. I will give it a try this evening. I was assuming the kerf on the far side would guide the blade as it does with western saws. I am quite please with the speed these Japanese saws cut, both crosscut and ripping.
Thanks, Eric

[Brian Holcombe]

Are you holding the handle with two hands?

[Eric R. Smith]

Brian,
The first cut I used one hand. So I switched to a two hand grip and had the same results.

[Brian Holcombe]

I suspect that saw needs a sharpening, something is likely off in the set.

[David Eisenhauer]

Brian or anyone else with ryoba experience: Any comment on one vs two hands holding the saw?

[Mark AJ Allen]

I suspect that saw needs a sharpening, something is likely off in the set.

I'm always sawing with two hands on. I find this minimizes my tendency to rotate or deflect the handle; generally reducing nasty effects on the cut.