Do I need to glass it?

[Owen Stefaniak]

Hey everyone, I'm planning to throw together a cheap and easy plywood pram, probably in the 8 foot(ish) range. This is going to be a utility boat used exclusively for solo duck hunting and nearshore fishing. It will likely never see deep water. I want it to be small and light so a regular car can pull it, or roof rack it. And I need to be able to handle moving it around by myself. I also want to keep it affordable as this isn't meant to be a pleasure craft; just something to get the job done.

I am thinking something similar to this, without the sail rig:
sprite-2-w730.jpg

I am able to get some high grade baltic birch ply that is alleged to have no voids. If that doesn't look up to snuff I will use meranti BS1088. Okoume is double the price of the meranti at my local supplier and that's too expensive.

My question to everyone is: for a boat like this that is basically built from 2 sheets of ply, do I need to glass and epoxy the thing or are there alternatives? I know that this will be the most durable, long term solution. However cost and weight are both factors here. I'm hoping for cheaper, easier solutions, but am open to glassing it if I have to.

[Robin Frierson]

I built a 14 ft row boat back in 1996 out of Marine Mahogony ply and used West epoxy on the inside and out, everything except the teak seats and solid mahogony transon. Just coated it with no glass. I also put some white oak runners on the bottom which I would recommend...these small boats get drug around. Mine has been sitting on a beach for 20 years and still looking good.

I think you could just paint it but will probably not stand up to the elements as well..If you store it inside then definetly just paint it. But if its outside all the time then I would epoxy. The two part marine paints are almost like epoxy themselves.

[Owen Stefaniak]

Maybe I will just glass the thing. The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking that paying the extra money for glass and resin now will be cheaper than building a new cheap boat every couple years when they go to crap. I like the idea on the oak runners though. This thing will undoubtedly see many groundings as it's gonna be a mostly a shoreline boat. Did you put glass or resin over the runners, or just install them afterward?

[Robin Frierson]

I put the runners on before I put the resin. Though the resin wore off pretty quickly over the oak runners. My boat has lasted 20 years and that's plywood outside using the resin. Also used a good grade of marine plywood, but only 1/4 inch for the sides and 3/8 for the bottom.

[Rod Brink]

Maybe I will just glass the thing. The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking that paying the extra money for glass and resin now will be cheaper than building a new cheap boat every couple years when they go to crap. I like the idea on the oak runners though. This thing will undoubtedly see many groundings as it's gonna be a mostly a shoreline boat. Did you put glass or resin over the runners, or just install them afterward?

Glass the panels with 6 oz fiberglass and epoxy... (System Three is 20% cheaper than West and their general purpose resin is about $80/gallon, mixes 2:1 resin to hardener. Get fast. With a reasonable paint job this little boat will last forever. You could build a slightly larger one built light and perhaps it could track better and offer a bit more room and better performance. For the time it takes to build the one you showed... you could build a 25-30% larger design and build it light and smart and because it is larger you will likely keep it longer because your use will be much more as you progress in use. You could also build a rowing/sailing design and make it even more versatile.

eg:

http://www.devlinboat.com/2015/11/bella-10-skiff/

Use walnut for runners...its tough enough and glues great with no fasteners needed.

Oak is heavy and needs to be wiped with acetone to glue on and usually folks use fasteners to be safe.

[andy bessette]

Baltic birch will make it extremely heavy! Meranti, only a little less so. Okoume, if you want it light.

If it will spend the greatest part of its life carefully stored, indoors, you might get by with just epoxy coating and painting.

[Owen Stefaniak]

hmm, maybe I will have to suck it up and pay for the okoume as weight is a big factor. I guess I'm only looking at 2-3 sheets so it won't be too bad. I am intrigued at the thought of something like that Devlin 10. would give me more room for the dog and decoys. My primary concern with regard to weight and size is that there are a lot of little backwater places around my stomping grounds that I'd like to be able to get this thing into; forest lakes, wetland ponds and stuff that would require a short hike down a trail with a small cart. Or I've even thought about using some detachable mountain bike wheels to get her down a trail. Point being, most of the time I'll need to do this alone. I'm physically fit and active, but I don't want this to be harder than it needs to.

Thanks a bunch for the great advice so far. I've done plenty of maintenance on wooden boats, but this will be my first home build.

[Robin Frierson]

Well looking back the boat was really my favorite build. I learned how to scarf plywood together and that really started me down the path of woodworking. I built a design called "Lil Gem" from Swan designs and did it all with hand tools, owning no stationary machines. A local boatbuilding yard took pity on me, ripped my lumber and sold me the mahogony and teak from their huge inventory. I learned a lot about expoxy, fillets, etc. I think you will enjoy the build.

http://www.swanboatdesign.com/gallery.html

[Rod Brink]

hmm, maybe I will have to suck it up and pay for the okoume as weight is a big factor. I guess I'm only looking at 2-3 sheets so it won't be too bad. I am intrigued at the thought of something like that Devlin 10. would give me more room for the dog and decoys. My primary concern with regard to weight and size is that there are a lot of little backwater places around my stomping grounds that I'd like to be able to get this thing into; forest lakes, wetland ponds and stuff that would require a short hike down a trail with a small cart. Or I've even thought about using some detachable mountain bike wheels to get her down a trail. Point being, most of the time I'll need to do this alone. I'm physically fit and active, but I don't want this to be harder than it needs to.

Thanks a bunch for the great advice so far. I've done plenty of maintenance on wooden boats, but this will be my first home build.

That Devlin !0 weights 52 pounds, the weight of some really cool expensive kayaks. Light weight rollers are available. Okoume is your friend with light weight... but you should glass the bottom. Just glass the bottom and just coat the rest of the boat in epoxy (two coats) and paint it... or you could apply Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer ( CPES) and paint atop that... which is an amazing barrier to moisture and forms a fantastic bond with any paint if the paint is applied within about 18 hours. See " Smith and Company" in California. This is a good second choice for weight but no less expensive.

That Bella 10 is a lot of boat for 55 pounds... https://www.devlinboat.com/2015/11/bella-10-skiff/
The human powered designs by Devlin: https://www.devlinboat.com/human-powered/

Arch Davis has some nice designs and he will support you if you have questions when building.
http://www.archdavisdesigns.com
"Graces' Tender" is a 55 pound design that is what you are looking for... but the Bella 10 is more boat for the same weight.
BTW: The Penobscot 13 has a large following and many have been built... I think they weight 150 lbs.
http://www.archdavisdesigns.com/davis_penobscot13.html

Do your homework and make a good decision as to the size and weight and capabilities of a boat you choose. When you consider the money, work, and time to build a boat... sometimes in the long run you would be better off building a bit more boat than you think you want to take on...so it will be useful to you for many years.
Good Luck..
R
www.brinkboatrepair.com

[andy bessette]

I have the Seattle Sports ATC cart which should be ideal for the dink you are planning. Made a custom chock to fit the bottom of my canoe, as I didn't like the fit of the padded bolsters.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

First, it will depend on whether you get marine grade plywood (which, of course, you should) and whether it's Lloyd's rated and what wood it is made of. If you do get the "good stuff," then you do not HAVE to glass it, but I absolutely would. I build small boats and teach classes in boatbuilding. I have seen boats here in the Caribbean built only of plywood and painted. I've even seen people use treated plywood from Home Depot. (Don't do this, please, but just for example- you'd be amazed at what people get away with.) Sure, it will work, but glass will give you a protective layer, not just from the elements, but from scuffing when beaching or brushing up against a stump or log.

I would recommend 6 ounce glass and Raka makes a very good epoxy that is reasonably priced. That would be a nice minimum. You could glass only the outside and then epoxy coat the inside, but I would at minimum put a layer of glass in the floor where you're going to be grinding dirt in with your feet, and water will be standing.

[Owen Stefaniak]

Thanks again for all the great info guys. I was actually already looking at the Raka epoxy you recommend because it was a nice deal. Have not really heard of it until recently. I wasn't sure how good it was though. I have used West and Interlux a little bit in the past, mostly just to coat some deck boxes on a boat that frequently had a wet deck. Using the Raka could save some money. I called my local lumber mill yesterday and they do have Okoume BS1088 in stock so I guess I'm leaning toward that for the lighter weight properties. Do you think that glassing the floor would still be necessary if it is painted? I guess if I have glass left over from doing the exterior I will do the floor anyway, but I'm just curious.

Malcolm I definitely believe you about the boats in the VI. I spent around 4 months working on a boat in the Bahamas between Nassau, Eleuthera, and the Exumas. I seriously could not believe some of the boats these fisherman and conch divers would go out in. There was one guy we saw every week in a little wooden jon boat and on the port side of the bow the bulwark was smashed away such that the opening was a few inches above water line. Week after week we saw him. No attempt to repair ever. We kinda started to cheer him on after a while. What a maniac.

[Shawn Pixley]

My experience with wooden boats is limited to plank built boats. Each spring we would put it in the Lake Union Ship canel where she would sink. The wood would swell and after we bailed it out, she would be water tight for the rest of the year.

For a plywood skiff, I would use marine plywood and glass / resin it. Malcolm's viewpoint is very similar to my own.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Here is one on Jost VanDyke getting repaired by simply cutting out the damage and screwing in some treated ply. Amazing. This will, no doubt, be taken to the North Drop to fish, well offshore. IMG_0545.jpg

[Owen Stefaniak]

Here is one on Jost VanDyke getting repaired by simply cutting out the damage and screwing in some treated ply. Amazing. This will, no doubt, be taken to the North Drop to fish, well offshore. IMG_0545.jpg

Hahaha I love it