Arm R Seal application tips?

[Andrew Wayland]

I've watched a few videos and read the container: but I'm curious about what you guys suggest to be a good routine when working with Arm-R-Seal?

Ill be using Semi-Gloss and Gloss for various cabinet components.


Im most curious to find out how much time you allow between coats (maybe I didn't read the label right, but it seems they call for 24hrs for curing?)

I'd like to hear about what grits and how much effort you sand with before and between coats

And I'm also curious what you prefer to apply with.

Thabks!

[Andy Giddings]

I use disposable Blue shop towels for application, sand very lightly to remove any nibs with an UltraFine 3M Softback Sanding Sponge, and generally allowed close to 24hrs for a re-coat. Think the last piece I used 5 coats. Need to avoid going over the same area twice during the same coat to avoid swirl marks, and avoid flooding the surface. Work in circles as this seemed to me to leave no marks at all in the finish

[John TenEyck]

I often use nothing more than a blue shop towel to apply ARS and that's my preferred method for smaller parts. If the wood is thirsty, like oak, it often takes 24 hours for the first coat to dry well enough that you can scuff sand it to powder. Subsequent coats dry in 8 hours or so for me. I apply the finish in long parallel strokes, not the circular motion others talk about. Whenever I've done that with gloss I can see swirl marks in the finish. Anyway, long strokes and don't go back over more than once or twice or it will start to streak. You really have to resist the temptation to just take one more pass to make it look perfect. If you put it on heavy enough it will flow out and those little imperfections will disappear.

For large surfaces like a table top I've had much better luck applying ARS with a foam brush and diluting it about 25% with mineral spirits. Same process otherwise. Regardless of application I scuff sand between coats with about 400 grit. On table tops I've even used my ROS after 3 or 4 coats to get things back to perfectly flat, before applying the last one or two coats.

John

[Andrew Wayland]

Thanks for the tips guys.

I made the mistake of using a bag of "rags" from the big orange store, which left nice white fibers everywhere. I'll I've the shop towel a try...

Interesting the difference between the circular and straight methods. I'll have to play around with it some more. I'm just finishing the inside of some cabinets, so I'm not too concerned about the perfect finish here.


I'm tempted to try the foam brush since it is such a large area: but many seem to stick with rags.


I'm curious though; how thick do you all lay it on? My first coat seemed to suck right into the wood and left a lot of dry spots.

[Andy Giddings]

Andrew, with a shop towel I bunch it up into a ball shape, dip the ball into the Arm R Seal and let the excess drip off, then apply. I think you'll find a shop towel will only adsorb a certain amount which is fine for areas like a large coffee table, but might be too little for a dining table surface. I'll also point out that I only use satin sheen and not gloss, which might be why I can get away with a circular application and John prefers straight lines for gloss. In general I prefer building lighter coats than a few thicker coats when I apply any finish

[Andrew Wayland]

Ahh: I see. I'll be going with semi-gloss for the cabinet interiors, and gloss for the bar top and trim (although I'm wondering if epoxy or spar varnish would be a better option)

Ill have to play with the gloss to see how that comes out.

The semi gloss went on a bit "blotchy" where some areas seem dry and others coated. I'm guessing after a second coat it'll fill in better

[Gary Muto]

I sometimes use paper towels with good results. Any rags have to be washed forst to get loose fibers out, but i guess you figured that out.
There is a chance the application rag can combust so lay it out flat on a non-combustible surface or place in a container of water after use. I like to lay mine out flat since they are dry within a day

[John TenEyck]

THe dry areas will go away when you get enough coats on to fill all those thirsty areas. How thick to apply a coating is always a question. A lot depends upon how fast you work. The faster you work the thinner you can apply it and still have it level out. There's no right or wrong; whatever works best for you, and that will change depending upon the temp. and humidity.

John

[Len Rosenberg]

Andrew, General Finishes (Manufacturer of Arm R Seal) makes a sealant called Seal A Cell. It is incredibly easy to use, and makes application of Arm R Seal a breeze. It is quite thin, so the thirsty areas of the wood absorb it quickly. I use Handy Wipes to apply it, just rub it on copiously, let it absorb into the wood for a minute or so, then apply more to the areas that dry up right away. Then I wipe it all down with a paper towel, to even out the coating. After it dries, I sand with 320 and do a second coat. The second coat is sanded with 320, and then I use a disposable foam brush to apply the Arm R Seal. I find the Arm R Seal takes a minimum of 24 hours to cure for sanding, depending on temp and humidity, sometimes longer. After two or more coats of the Arm R Seal, final sanding is 400-800-1200-1500 and a coat of Antiquax. Looks lustrous and feels like silk. Have been using this method for years.
Regards,
Len

[Andrew Wayland]

Here's another question: I've completed two of four coats. I know that for the final coat doesn't get any sanding.

Im wondering, though: after coat 2, there's still quite a bit of roughness left over (I'm sanding with 400grit between). Will this get better as I add coats? Or should I expect some roughness on the final product?

[Andy Giddings]

I didn't have any roughness after sanding. Typically the roughness before sanding is very light and can be smoothed by a scuff sanding with 400. Should be an even matt surface before the next coat goes on. Last piece I did was stained so I waited until it had a couple of coats of Arm R Seal before sanding to avoid going through the stain, but after that every coat was sanded.

Do you still have some "dry areas" left or have they filled out?

[John TenEyck]

The roughness will go away when you have filled all the thirsty areas, so apply more coats. I often apply a coat or two of Sealcoat shellac to fill the wood pores before applying ARS, shellac being a lot cheaper.

John

[Andrew Wayland]

Ah: maybe it's my thinner coats then. It has a very fine roughness to it.

I'm afraid to apply too thick since some of it is going on vertically (cabinets). I didn't want too much puddling. I'm going to sand and apply a coat tonight after work: so hopefully by coat 4 (or 5 if needed) it'll be nice and smooth!

I wasn't sure if you all had any extra tricks up your sleeves (without adding too many more steps).

Thanks all!

[Bob Grier]

I have been happy with the Arm-R-Seal finish on cabinets and small furniture. I apply with foam brush which is wrapped in plastic wrap between coats and then reused. After applying with foam brush I wait 3 to 5 minutes before wiping the surface with clean rags or blue shop towels (I prefer rags) always making the last wipe with a dry rag. For me, the number of coats depends on characteristics of the wood, whether it will see heavy use or none at all (inside cabinet or underneath surface of drawer), and how much patience I have at the time. Final surface is silk smooth without plastic look.

Prep of wood is with 150 grit and sometimes 220 grit. If I prep the wood with finer grit like 320 or finer, then I thin out the first coat of finish with mineral spirits 50/50 to increase penetration.

I like the satin or semi gloss finish and since I usually end up with 5 to 7 coats (less in out of sight areas and more on open pore woods), I build up the finish with gloss and switch to satin or semi for final 2 or 3 coats. After initial 1 or 2 coats I sand between coats with 220 on flat surfaces and 400 on curved edges and narrow surfaces to minimize sanding through the surface or edges. Between final 2 or 3 coats, I sand surfaces with 320.

Caution - Arm-R-Seal is oil base so be careful with disposing rags.
Caution - The finish off gasses for a long long long time so if you build inset drawers in a cabinet or finish the inside of a closed space, it will be odoriferous for many months. You may want to finish the inside of closed spaces like cabinets with a different finish. I don't have problem with spaces that have opening that allows air circulation and I just put up with the odor or don't use the space in tightly closed areas until it settles down. This can take months.

Even though the off gassing in closed spaces is a big issue with me, I still use the Arm-R-Seal for wipe on/off finish because I like the final results and it is so easy (although time consuming) to get super nice results. No skill level required. No runs, sags, plastic look, or nibs. It just comes out silk smooth and is durable. Requires lots of rags and time waiting between coats but eliminates frustration for me. I don't have an area for spray finishing.

[John TenEyck]

If that procedure works for you Bob then that's great, but Arm-R-Seal is not meant to be wiped off like an oil/varnish mix. It's a wiping varnish, and is meant to be applied and left on the surface. I'm not criticizing, only pointing out that you could probably get the same results with a lot less Arm-R-Seal if you just wiped it on and skipped the foam brush step.

John