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Thread: Coal Plant SO2 effects on handtools

  1. #16
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    Thanks, Stew, for the time and effort. Very interesting.

    Stan

  2. #17
    +1. Thanks Stew.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Covington View Post
    Thanks, Stew, for the time and effort. Very interesting.

    Stan
    Yes, thanks! I've gone from wondering if this might be an issue from a position of total ignorance to thinking it probably is not anything to really hoping it ain't so lol. Still at a point it seems unlikely however.

    thanks for everyone who provided their insight and knowledge.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson View Post
    An in-depth discussion on S02 emissions on a Neanderthal Hand Tool Forum. The mods must be in holiday mode.
    I'm sorry but I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.

  5. #20
    We Mods don't generally interfere when a thread drifts partially off topic unless things delve into those areas that violate the TOS (terms of service). The drifts in this particular cased were directly related to the question from the original poster and therefore relevant.
    Dave Anderson
    Chester Toolworks LLC
    Chester, NH

  6. #21
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    Stewie, this has not been an in-depth discussion on SO2 emissions, we are merely scratching the surface. If you would like, we can have a rich and full dialogue on the many aspects of SO2 emissions... starting with the sulfur content in various types of coal, use of high sulur petroleum coke, stack gas scrubbing technologies, pre or post-combustion sulfur mitigation, direct-fired combustion vs. partial oxidation, acid gas removal technologies, sampling techniques...and way more!

    After exhausting this topic, we can move on to other coal plant emissions like mercury, coal slag, the fate of vanadium, etc.... but it's way more fun to talk about woodworking instead.

    Best,
    Jim

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Stew Denton View Post
    Another possible sulfur compound is H2S. (Rotten egg gas.) You aren't likely to have it in the air either, but if you did, it would cause trouble with tools. Iron and copper sulfides (which would eventually result from the H2S and either copper based metal or steel based metals) is jet black. I have had more experience with H2S than SO2, and you shouldn't have much of it either, but if you did, the corrosion on the tools would be black. (Again, you aren't likely to have it because it is on the order of the same toxicity as is the hydrogen cyanide that they used to use to execute prisoners. Also, you can smell it at very low PPM levels, although it becomes undetectable quickly if you are around it, because it deadens your ability to smell it.)
    Stew's got a good point (I've read through the whole thread, so caveats included), but I couldn't help but point out that H2S is an *extremely* common offgas near kraft pulp mills, so there would be plenty of info on this being an issue. Kraft mills use a sulfate-based process and regularly produce H2S, which last I saw was regulated by the government to somewhere around 5ppm in the stack; however, the odor threshold for humans is 3 orders of magnitude lower (~5ppb), so it's easily detected even diluted in air from within regulated concentrations. If you had H2S around to impact your tools, you'd know it from the smell!


    d
    Not all chemicals are bad. Without hydrogen or oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.

  8. #23
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    H2S was mentioned also and it might be the result of a water heater. The water heater is across the garage in a closet.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by daniel lane View Post
    ... kraft pulp mills, ...
    There was a tree in Lubbock once, but the dogs all fought over it, so they removed it. ...I'm guessing source of the problem is not a pulp mill. Nearest tree to Lubbock is ~500 miles, but on a clear day you can see it. (I lived in Amarillo. Twice. And they have same problem there.)

    There are many sour gas wells in the Permian, but I doubt this is the source of the problem either, as the air quality is closely monitored for life safety reasons. H2S is deadly.
    Molann an obair an saor.

  10. #25
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    LOL. So true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm McLeod View Post
    There was a tree in Lubbock once, but the dogs all fought over it, so they removed it. ...I'm guessing source of the problem is not a pulp mill. Nearest tree to Lubbock is ~500 miles, but on a clear day you can see it. (I lived in Amarillo. Twice. And they have same problem there.)

    There are many sour gas wells in the Permian, but I doubt this is the source of the problem either, as the air quality is closely monitored for life safety reasons. H2S is deadly.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stew Denton View Post
    I hate to admit it, but I have to eat a little crow, and agree with a lot of what you are saying, but not all of it. I know quite a bit about the technology, but what I thought about the environmental rules was wrong. I need to stick with the technical questions.
    Thank *you* for digging deeply into this and clearing up the stuff where I was fuzzy (stack height impacts etc). I've agreed all along that the probability of SO2 being the culprit here was low all along btw. I should have spelled that out instead of just nit-picking :-).

    IIRC Texas has made their regulations more business friendly over the past couple decades, so a lot depends on when you had the discussion you describe.

  12. I guess most anything is possible, but I think that old medical expression "when you hear hoofbeats, think of horses not zebras" is probably on target here. Regardless I would think that a little polish like Simichrome or Flitz followed by some wax should keep your plane in reasonable shape. Frequent use should really minimize the amount of tarnish you get on the sole.

  13. #28
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    I used to work in a pulp mill that used SO2 in it's acid for cooking the wood chips. I think if you had a SO2 or H2S problem in your house or shop that was affecting your tools you could smell either one.

    Is it possible that you're storing some household or gun cleaning products near where your tools are being kept? Some household cleaners contain acid of one type or another and many gun cleaning solutions contain ammonia. Both of which could have corrosive affects on your tools.

    SO2 is also used as a preservative in some food, check a package of dried pineapple, and at one time many years ago it was used as a refrigerant in early refrigerators until a safer better smelling chemical was developed.
    Confidence: The feeling you experience before you fully understand the situation

  14. #29
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    Well, this was way over my head but interesting. I remember the days of acid rain. Thanks for posting.

  15. #30
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    If you have rust problems in general and you have a gas water heater in the shop that may be the problem. They produce a large amount of water vapor. If the water heater is not venting properly that water vapor will do it. It will also produce fumes if not venting correctly. Seems like it must be something in your shop and not from outside.
    Jim

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