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Thread: Grinding Wheels

  1. #16
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    Jan 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Albrecht View Post
    If you are not sharpening the small 1/4" tools used for hollowing, I would advise staying away from the radiused edge wheels. A 1 1/2" wide radiused wheel only has a usable flat grinding surface of 1", and that can be deceiving as you look at the whole spinning wheel and you may tend to fall off the rounded edge.

    D-way makes the best-- solid steel wheel with no adhesive.

    Ken Rizza's (Woodturning Wonders) are good and he will special order non-rounded wheels for you. His are aluminum with an adhesive bonded grit.
    Tom - how is the CBN bonded to the D-Way steel wheel and why is it better?

    Thanks,

    Mike

  2. #17
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    Sep 2015
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    Mike,
    Dave's wheels are electroplated and he can tell you more about what that means. Like a lot of our woodturning suppliers, he runs a small family business and he's more than happy to bend your ear if you call him, same with Ken Rizza.

    Here is a link to the D-way website page on CBN wheels: http://http://d-waytools.com/cbn-grinding-wheels

  3. #18
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    Feb 2008
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    E TN, near Knoxville
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Goetzke View Post
    how is the CBN bonded to the D-Way steel wheel and why is it better?
    I believe the aluminum wheels are made the same way. The aluminum can be a lighter weight than thick steel wheels which MIGHT be an issue when starting up an under-powered grinder. Someone on another forum mentioned with two steel wheels he gave the wheels a little push by hand to help get them up to speed. I don't know if they were Dave's wheels, though.

    I know one person experimenting with using water with a CBN wheel. His steel wheel started rusting right away. Keep it away from water, should be no problem unless cycles of cold/condensation tend to rust everything in the shop (but that would be a bigger problem)

    Rizza said he went with aluminum wheels for a couple of reasons. I'm sure he would be happy to talk about it if you give him a call. Nice guy. I got flat honing plates from him also, both CBN and diamond. He can order almost any thing you can imagine if you are not in a hurry. He also now sells a complete package with wheels on a grinder. (No, I don't work for him or get a commission!)

    I suspect you would be happy with either type of wheel. If you haven't done so, you might want to read Reed Grey's writeup on CBN wheels:
    http://www.robohippy.net/featured-article/

    JKJ

  4. #19
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    Sep 2015
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    I am not positive, but I don't think that electroplating and aluminum work together.

  5. #20
    I believe both aluminum and steel CBN wheels are electroplated. Not sure about the specifics of the process, and it may be some what different for aluminum and steel. Some questioned about how well the aluminum hubs would work compared to steel. As long as Ken's wheels have been out on the market, if it was an issue of it not bonding properly, we would have heard all about it by now.

    I have heard of some of the Tormek CBN wheel users keeping the water bath going, but only for a short time due to the rust factor, and you just plain don't need it. If I was going for a wet wheel, I would use oil like Trend. Any slow or high speed standard grinder would leave you wet if you are in the line of fire...

    robo hippy

  6. #21
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    Mar 2007
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    Actually electroplating works very well with Aluminum, you must use a different setup, but it works well.
    Making sawdust mostly, sometimes I get something else, but that is more by accident then design.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Atikokan, Rainy River district, Ontario
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    3,145
    Plating Aluminium is possible, but not easy, there are several steps involved to do this, Copper, Brass and Steel are much easier done and with less problems afterwards if any.

    The process is getting more refined as time goes on and more experience is gained, look at the plated Aluminium wheels on cars, there used to be lots of problems with that, not so much anymore it seems.

    plating Aluminium.jpg


    Have fun and take care

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Burbank, CA
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    When I bought my Rikon slow speed grinder I wanted to install 2 CBN wheels on it but I was concerned about the added weight of CBN. I went ahead and ordered two CBN wheels from Woodturners Wonders and when I got them, I compared the weight of the original (unused) stone wheels vs. the CBN wheels. The CBN wheels turned out to several ounces lighter.

  9. #24
    I pity anyone just starting out thinking that they couldn't try this great hobby without all the exotic tools we all mention. Any one remember oh so long ago when high speed steel and aluminum oxide white wheels were the order of the day ? This being said however I love technology but the prices can be unrealistic for a retired fella ...Just sayin'

  10. #25
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    Jul 2008
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    Atikokan, Rainy River district, Ontario
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Ticknor View Post
    I pity anyone just starting out thinking that they couldn't try this great hobby without all the exotic tools we all mention. Any one remember oh so long ago when high speed steel and aluminum oxide white wheels were the order of the day ? This being said however I love technology but the prices can be unrealistic for a retired fella ...Just sayin'
    Right on Scott, I wasn’t brought up to discard all the tried and true and replace all with the latest (better and best, like the whiter than white etc) to have to do it all over again in a year or two.

    Use what works and save your money works for me, as this is no production shop, some extra seconds don’t count up to much here, having sharpened HSS in a production shop with good results with Carborundum wheels, and even carbide with the friable green silicone carbide wheels, granted a diamond wheel is a much better wheel for that and are affordable now for a production shop, not in that time.

    I am still using the tried and true Carborundum wheels as I have done for 60 years, and my HSS tools get plenty sharp, and that HSS has proven to be an excellent steel for woodworking tools, yes carbide is better for metal, not so much for wood IMO.

    My 10 inch grinder here, I have a couple other ones that are also used for some sharpening on my smaller tools.

    10%22 grinder.jpg


    Have fun and take care

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Toronto, CA
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    252
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Ticknor View Post
    I pity anyone just starting out thinking that they couldn't try this great hobby without all the exotic tools we all mention. Any one remember oh so long ago when high speed steel and aluminum oxide white wheels were the order of the day ? This being said however I love technology but the prices can be unrealistic for a retired fella ...Just sayin'

    ButÖ.then whatís a retailer to do?
    If they canít sell yah the latest unobtainium whatchamacallit?
    Thatís an unknowable percent better than the last solution?
    That worked just fine.....



    Its just marketing.
    Gotta increase the GDP somehow.



    (yah, Iím cynical, but my wife endorses it. And sheís in marketing)

    Olaf

  12. #27
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    Sep 2015
    Location
    Chicago or SW Wisconsin
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    Hey, come on now. I'm retired too. And I don't just buy up all the newest stuff either, but you have to admit that there is a lot of new technology that benefits mankind in general, and woodturners too. When my friable 8" wheels were worn down to replacement size it made sense to spend a few dollars more to get something that will not need to be replaced again.

    I have five sons. One of them is a woodturner-- he, and my grand daughters, are going to make a haul when the time comes.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Albrecht View Post
    I am not positive, but I don't think that electroplating and aluminum work together.
    I do believe that I was told that the aluminum wheels are resin bonded...

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Ticknor View Post
    I pity anyone just starting out thinking that they couldn't try this great hobby without all the exotic tools we all mention. Any one remember oh so long ago when high speed steel and aluminum oxide white wheels were the order of the day ? This being said however I love technology but the prices can be unrealistic for a retired fella ...Just sayin'
    Quote Originally Posted by Leo Van Der Loo View Post
    Right on Scott, I wasn’t brought up to discard all the tried and true and replace all with the latest (better and best, like the whiter than white etc) to have to do it all over again in a year or two.

    Use what works and save your money works for me, as this is no production shop, some extra seconds don’t count up to much here, having sharpened HSS in a production shop with good results with Carborundum wheels, and even carbide with the friable green silicone carbide wheels, granted a diamond wheel is a much better wheel for that and are affordable now for a production shop, not in that time.

    I am still using the tried and true Carborundum wheels as I have done for 60 years, and my HSS tools get plenty sharp, and that HSS has proven to be an excellent steel for woodworking tools, yes carbide is better for metal, not so much for wood IMO.

    My 10 inch grinder here, I have a couple other ones that are also used for some sharpening on my smaller tools.

    10%22 grinder.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Olaf Vogel View Post
    But….then what’s a retailer to do?
    If they can’t sell yah the latest unobtainium whatchamacallit?
    That’s an unknowable percent better than the last solution?
    That worked just fine.....



    Its just marketing.
    Gotta increase the GDP somehow.



    (yah, I’m cynical, but my wife endorses it. And she’s in marketing)

    Olaf
    I'm not implying in any way that someone needs to buy "exotic" tools to try woodturning. I, myself started with an entire set of generic HSS tools that costs less than 50 bucks and as stated earlier, I still use a few of them. As time goes on, they are being replaced with better quality because it just makes since to do so. As for price, an unhandled Thompson bowl gouge and its exotic make up is about 65 bucks. An unhandled Sorby bowl gouge in the same size for example, is about 80 bucks. Thompson steel holds an edge something like 27 times longer than standard HSS. How many of those Sorby gouges and other brands will be ground down to a nub and need replacing before I grind away all of my exotic steel? Even with the cost of the exotic grinding wheels I'm shopping, I'm probably still gonna see a savings in the long run. Its more than marketing and may actually be more cost effective for a retired fella!
    Last edited by Dennis Collier; 01-10-2017 at 8:24 PM.

  15. #30
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    Feb 2008
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    E TN, near Knoxville
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Albrecht View Post
    Hey, come on now. I'm retired too. And I don't just buy up all the newest stuff either...
    I knew about the value of CBN for years before I decided to get them. They are cheap enough for me now.

    But we should remember people turned amazing things for centuries without HSS tools, CBN wheels, VFD lathes, live centers, MT tapers, and scroll chucks. And even without electric motors.

    I remember reading a report from an Englishman in the 1600s about a woodturner in India turning household items and finishing with friction polish (lac). I suspect he didn't sharpen Thompson tools on CBN wheels!

    JKJ

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