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Thread: looking for suggestions on a quality shop vac

  1. #46
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    Thanks for your insight Van. Test parameters are important. I can understand how they can have significant impact on test

    Guess I should buy one and see what my ears tell me in my environment.
    George

    Making sawdust regularly, occasionally a project is completed.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Bokros View Post
    Guess I should buy one and see what my ears tell me in my environment.
    That really is the most important thing as none of these types of vacs are safe to run within a few feet of your ears for extended periods of time so the actual SPL is not that meaningful, how stressful they are running 12-15 feet away is where the value is at.

    I would have no issue returning a vac that was advertised as being quiet if it didn't meet my expectations of quiet and I don't see this as taking advantage of a retailer. One thing you could do is test and report your SPL findings. While the app based SPL meters have poor absolute accuracy they are decent for direct comparison. Just place each vac in the same position in your shop and leave the phone in the exact same spot (and stand in the same place behind the phone) and while this still leaves variables it has some value. Report the SPL numbers as well as your subjective assessment of how irritating the sound is.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  3. #48
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    Well I went out and actually looked at shop vacs today. Went to one store that had both Fein (1) and Festool. The sales guy right away tried to push me to Festool. I do not like sales people who try to tell me what I want ,last time I checked I am pretty sure that was my decision to make lol.Anyway my question is for those of you who know Fein vacs are the 'older style " ones more rounded in shape ? I remember the one difference being that the older style had variable speed airflow vs. fixed. How does the filter bag perform in these compared to the newer cartridge style. The prices were high,Festool was 850-1000 depending on what one. Fein was 400? Next I went to Home depot and looked at Rigid. The quietest one was also the biggest. I used to think big was good ,now I realize that smaller sometimes is better. Rigid was 180. So I started to think maybe I should buy the Fein now. Anyone have any suggestions ? All prices are Canadian dollars.

  4. #49
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    I had a Rigid (still have it) and made a cyclone and added a HEPA filter (is over 11 years now).

    cyc4.jpg

    Then bought a Festool but wasn't impressed for the price, so returned it (have several other Festool tools).
    I have one more larger Rigid that I bought. With life time warranty it is hard to beat these. Get a good hose for it and you can use it with other Festool tools if needed.

    image_90890.jpg

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Huskey View Post
    Any comparison you try to make based on your measurements to the numbers Ridgid gave you are indeed worthless because you don't have any idea of the protocols they used for their test. One of the big issues is the distance the SPL was measured at. Sound follows the inverse square law* and so with every doubling of distance SPL drops by 6dB. So relatively small variations in distance (since inside a shop you aren't going to be measuring at a large distance) can have significant implications to the measurement taken. Measurements of SPL are sometimes governed by industry or governmental standards but in general most of the tools/machines we buy are not so without full information on the test protocols there is no way we can make a direct comparison to the number Ridgid gave you. Even if you had access to an anechoic chamber and the best instruments in the world the numbers you would get are still useless to compare them to the Ridgid numbers without knowing how they performed the test.

    My experience is being a 25+ year avid audiophile (though I hate that term) and having designed, built, tested and voiced dozens of speakers. While I am FAR from an expert this stuff is rather rudimentary and would be gleaned by any semi-serious noob spending time on an audio or home theater forum in their first week.

    I also can't stress enough how the frequency of the sound will impact not only how loud a human perceives it but how irritating the sound is. So even if the sound has the same intensity one may be much more tolerable from one vac to the next and that is not quantifiable as a simple single number, but one could develop an algorithm to produce a single number to express "irritation" but I have never seen one.

    In the end my point is a SPL expressed as simply XXdB means nothing if you don't have more information, manufacturers know this but in industries that aren't regulated simply use them as marketing BUT I imagine Ridgid's reluctance to put the information on their retail packages may speak to some concern they have about possibly complaints or legal action. Some items sold in the EU require specific SPL testing and other tests like vibration so numbers for those tools can be directly compared to other tools that have to meet the same governmental standards.

    *the decay of sound waves if actually far more complex in most scenarios than the inverse square law because it really is only applicable to a true point source radiating into fully free space with no reflections to reinforce the direct waves but it is reasonably accurate for general discussion
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Kees View Post
    Well I went out and actually looked at shop vacs today. Went to one store that had both Fein (1) and Festool. The sales guy right away tried to push me to Festool. I do not like sales people who try to tell me what I want ,last time I checked I am pretty sure that was my decision to make lol.Anyway my question is for those of you who know Fein vacs are the 'older style " ones more rounded in shape ? I remember the one difference being that the older style had variable speed airflow vs. fixed. How does the filter bag perform in these compared to the newer cartridge style. The prices were high,Festool was 850-1000 depending on what one. Fein was 400? Next I went to Home depot and looked at Rigid. The quietest one was also the biggest. I used to think big was good ,now I realize that smaller sometimes is better. Rigid was 180. So I started to think maybe I should buy the Fein now. Anyone have any suggestions ? All prices are Canadian dollars.
    I have been happy with the performance of the filtration in my Fein vacs. I have the cloth bag type filters in all three. I have a hepa cartridge for my Turbo II but have not used it in years. Not since I started using dust deputy(s) in conjunction with my vacs. I use the DD whenever I'm collecting the really fine debris. If I do something that may be hazardous like lead based paint remediation, I use the DD and my Festool which has HEPA filtration.

    Essentially, normal shop vac tasks are handled well by their cloth bag filters. My two cents.

  6. #51
    I combined a 12 gal Rigid vac with a ClearVue mini cyclone and put both on a cart. In two years of heavy use (mostly connected to a Ridgid oscillating spindle sander I have not had more that a few specks of dust make it past the mini cyclone dust bin and into the Ridgid vac itself. Combined cost: Under $200, without the cart.

  7. #52
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    One more alternative is this:

    [URL="https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B007ULBA4W/ref=mp_s_a_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1484515344&sr= 8-10&pi=SL75_QL70&keywords=Vacmaster[/URL]

    It has a relatively quiet 2-stage motor (approximately 72db) with HEPA filtration. CFM rating of 125 and a water lift of 112".
    And the best part is that it costs less than $200!
    "I've cut the dang thing three times and it's STILL too darn short"
    Name withheld to protect the guilty

    Stew Hagerty

  8. #53
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    I own the Rigid vacuum as well as an older Fein unit. The Fein gets used far more often than the Rigid. I like that it has the outlets on it that allow it to automatically start when the tool you are using gets turned on. The filter also has superior qualities when compared to the Rigid. That said, anything trumps not using anything at all.

  9. #54
    Fein- small, tough; quiet, tool trigger, variable suction (older one); poor ergonomics/tool storage; skip the newer one imho, unless you want a flat top to hold your tools.
    Nilfisk- quiet; super tough; quiet (about same as Fein IMHO); better ergonomics/hose storage; the Attix AS/E version has tool-trigger and filter clean. I like my Nilfisk Attix 8 AS/E over my fein Turbo 1 (but I had to chip out the 5 mm of concrete inside before using it; mine was from a pawnshop in Las Vegas, via ebay). Bags and filters are cheaper than Fein/Festool. Stihl SE122 is a rebranded Nilfisk Attix30. Makita is a rebranded Nilfisk Attix50.
    Festool- quiettish (newer version); excellent integration with systainers; nice system but pricey; great as a festool platform (vac + dolly), but accessories get expensive fast.
    Bosch- made by Starmix (industrial maker of vacs for Festool, Metabo, Mafell, etc). I've never used a Starmix, but they have an excelllent reputation for being darned near indestructible. I think there's a systainer doc accessory in the works.

  10. #55
    FWIW, there's three Nilfisk Attix8 on ebay for $269. It doesn't have the filter clean or tool trigger though.
    There's a broken Nilfisk Attix 50 hepa (just splice new power chord, easy fix).
    There's a broken Fein Turbo 2 (9 55 16)-- I wouldn't get it since housing is cracked, but it'll probably still work.

    Anyways, I almost always buy used.

  11. #56
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    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Huskey View Post
    Nice review. Thanks for sharing.
    George

    Making sawdust regularly, occasionally a project is completed.

  13. #58
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    Something to keep in mind.

    The Festool EQ sander has a feedback circuit that turns a light on when the hose is off{?}, and the feedback loop runs a small amount of current all the time. Its enough that my Porter Cable drywall vac will not shut off. I have to unplug or use the manual switch. Makes no difference if you shut that off, only shuts off the light.

    I bought the little suitcase Festool vac and mounted to the ceiling for this reason. So, if you are using an EQ, check that the auto switch on the vac in question will work.

  14. #59
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    Van thanks for that review. It kind of confirms what I have figured out, I will probably end up with two vacs eventually. I am going to buy a Rigid for now and use a dust deputy. I have to get my main dust collection installed and payed for and figure out air filtration devices also.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Edgerton View Post
    Something to keep in mind.

    The Festool EQ sander has a feedback circuit that turns a light on when the hose is off{?}, and the feedback loop runs a small amount of current all the time. Its enough that my Porter Cable drywall vac will not shut off. I have to unplug or use the manual switch. Makes no difference if you shut that off, only shuts off the light.

    I bought the little suitcase Festool vac and mounted to the ceiling for this reason. So, if you are using an EQ, check that the auto switch on the vac in question will work.
    IIRC I read it does the same thing with the new Fein, I am a little hazy on that so it may have been another auto-on vac but it is an issue with more than the PC.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

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