Best 25k or 50k Workshop?

[Tim Boettcher]

Looking to invest $25k to 50k in my workshop (i.e. buy new most likely)

Have about 20x40' to work with.

My goal will be to mostly make household furniture, built-ins, some cabinetry etc.

I don't currently have a sliding table saw, but am wondering if one can get by without a traditional table saw if you have a slider.

My idea would be..
8" joiner/planer
20-24" surface planer
Table saw(s)
Band Saw
Drill Press
Lathe
Shaper
Drum sander
Belt/disc sander
Dust collection system
Air filtration system

Want quality stuff, but for low volume only.
Don't need CNC etc.

If there are any other must haves let me know

[Frank Drackman]

There are many, many questions that come to mind. I will only start with a couple.

What is your current level of woodworking & tool ownership?

Do you have a tendency to find a hobby and stick with it or do you develop some level of mastery then move on to the next interest?

[John Lanciani]

Why a 24" planer and only an 8" jointer? I could easily spend your budget for you, but I have the same question as Frank; what is your current level of experience?

[glenn bradley]

Threads of this type can often bring out a poor showing of some responses; jealousy, brand preference, method preference, the paralysis of too much choice and possibility, etc. The initial response questions are valid and many more will follow. It is a bit like asking "what is the best car for me?"; the answers are myriad and most are equally valid given a limited context. That doesn't mean we aren't anxious to get started trying to help you decide . Just don't get put off at the many questions that will follow.

You say "My goal will be to mostly make household furniture, built-ins, some cabinetry etc.". We need to dial this in a bit. A trim carpenter will recommend a sliding compound miter saw right out of the gate. I find them of little to no use. I notice this is also missing from your list so we are already of a like mind.

You mention a slider. If you are going to be doing the 'Kitchen and Baths' approach to your cabinetry this will be on your short-list. It would not be my first choice for furniture making. We all have our methods and approaches to certain tasks and I am admittedly cabinet-saw-centric for "tablesaw" type tasks. My footprint is 20 x 30 and I cannot give up the room for a slider; I'd have not room to build anything. Someone who is slider-centric (and we have a few experienced folks on here who I hope will chime in) I would respond differently.

In my approach to furniture making, once the design work is done I focus on the material:
- parts selection and marking, primarily eyeballs and chalk
- parts breakdown, primarily jigsaw and bandsaw
- parts milled to rough and then final dimensions, primarily jointer, planer, tablesaw and hand tools
- joinery, primarily router, tablesaw, bandsaw and hand tools
- surface prep, primarily hand tools
- and the beat goes on

There are as many different methods as there are woodworkers so I will echo Frank and John's question; what are you doing now, how are you doing it, tell us more about your planned activities, etc., etc. We're not being nosy, we just don't want to tell you all about shapers if a router table would actually be more valuable.

P.s. Dust collection should be first on your list and I don't see anything about finishing. Given your budget I could see a decent amount going toward creature comforts; heating, cooling and so forth.

[Martin Wasner]

Looking to invest $25k to 50k in my workshop (i.e. buy new most likely)

Have about 20x40' to work with.

My goal will be to mostly make household furniture, built-ins, some cabinetry etc.

Don't buy stationary equipment new unless you have to. It's a waste of money. I keep a spreadsheet inventory of basically every tool in my shop. I just capped $200k invested, but the replacement cost is almost $375k

Basement shop, or something at ground level?

Do you have three phase?

I don't currently have a sliding table saw, but am wondering if one can get by without a traditional table saw if you have a slider.

If I could only have one tablesaw, I would have a slider. With that said, I don't care for sliders. I think they are awkward and they take a acre of real estate, but if I could only have one that's what I'd have. I saw an older Martin recently sell at an auction for $2500. I did not go to the inspection, but I'm thinking somebody got a heck of a deal. It was old, but looked to be well cared for.

I spend a lot of time chasing equipment. I'm always looking, but never for anything specific. If something pops up for a good price, and I can use it, I try to buy it.





What I would expect to pay.

My idea would be..
8" joiner/planer $1000 tops, I just paid $2k for a mint SAC FS305 off of Craigslist though. I spent a little more than I wanted to, but it's nice, and I really wanted it.
20-24" surface planer Planers can be tricky used. A new SCM 630 class is about $18k. I just saw a 24" Northfield on Craigslist for $2500.
Table saw(s) Something like a used Powermatic Model 66 will go for $900-1500, depending on condition, personally it is as low a quality saw as I would go. I picked up a Northfield #4 recently, I traded a lightly used Tawainese 66 for it, it was on Craigslist for $1500. I bought a Tannewitz XJ for $1200, which might've been a bit high.
Band Saw I honestly don't know squat about bandsaws, other than I ran across a Powermatic 88? That I should've bought for $700. I really don't have a ton of use for one. I've got a 14" Delta, while not much of a saw, I don't ask much of it either.
Drill Press There's a thread in General Woodworking on some new drill press, I can't remember the brand. It looks intriguing. (I also don't know much about drill presses.
Lathe I also don't know squat about lathes.
Shaper Don't skimp on a shaper. Lightly built shapers are a nightmare, and are a pretty critical to machining wood well. Realistically, you can expect to pay about $5k on a nice used quality shaper. I paid $4k for an SCM T130, $5500 for a SAC TS120 that came out of a tech school in mint shape, and $1200 for a SAC TS120 that looks like hell and has had a rough life, but it cuts beautifully and it's an 1800# brute. I've got a pair of Powermatic 27's that I can't wait to get rid of.
Drum sander Don't bother. Find a widebelt. You will be much happier. Apex has a singlehead 37" that is a lighter duty machine that is pretty reasonable, but I think you're still looking at $8-9k. I do get a bit squeamish about used widebelts. People are generally idiots, and it's pretty easy to hurt a widebelt.
Belt/disc sander I've got nothing.
Dust collection system Craigslist is your friend. You can find some smaller industrial grade systems for pennies on the dollar. Most would disagree with me, but it's tough to go overboard on dust collection. There's never enough in my experience.
Air filtration system I'd get a downdraft table. You can use it as a bench by throwing sheet stock on it while not sanding, or you can do the same and use it as an outfeed table for a cabinet saw to save space. The one I've got is 48"x72" and it moves 3900 cfm. In 800 sq/ft with a 10' ceiling, you're going to roll the volume of the air every couple of minutes. In my experience, the hanging filters are pretty marginal.

Want quality stuff, but for low volume only.
Don't need CNC etc.

If there are any other must haves let me know

A must have in my opinion is the OMGA 300MEC mitre saw. If it's going to be stationary, it's the finest saw there is. I've bought three used ones in the past year getting ready for my new building. The most I paid was $660. Ironically the one I paid the most for was the crappiest of the three, I found it on eBay. I paid $650 for one that is absolutely mint off of Craigslist. I paid $500 for another one from eBay, and it is in good shape.



I started my cabinet shop in 2004. I had all of my hand tools, all of my install tools, and a $10k budget for stationary stuff. I bought all new stationary stuff of marginal quality. That was a giant mistake, and I'm still trying to replace some of those things. I spent poorly in the early years of my business because I didn't know any better. You can buy a lot of nice stuff used for $25-50k. There's deals to be had, but it takes patience, and perseverance looking. When my wife is watching some terrible TV show, I'm half paying attention to that and surfing classifieds and auction sites looking for tools. If you're not looking for a specific piece, you can find some gems. When you're looking for something specific, it takes time.

Tooling is expensive. Figure $600 per head as an average for shaper heads with insert tooling by the time you get knives plus extras, and backers. If you aren't doing production work, you can justify buying just a few nice heads. It's money well spent and a joy to use. Cheap tooling in a cheap shaper is just creating a need for blood pressure medication.

Electricity gets expensive quick too. I'm fortunate to have a close friend who is a commercial electrician who more or less owes me his soul in favors. (Not by accident ) Otherwise his shop charges $120/hr plus material, which is already ungodly expensive and they mark it up substantially.


What I'm getting at, is your budget can go a very long ways if spent wisely.

[Darcy Warner]

Good used stuff is out there.

[Don Jarvie]

Invest in the shop first, heat, AC, elec, insulation, etc before you go in on tools. It's great to have all these tools but it's too hot or cold to work.

[Van Huskey]

As Glen alluded to that is a lot to approach in one post, but a couple of things:


1. Get the infrastructure planned out first, with electrical, overwire to accommodate expansion or larger machines. Also figure out your DC I would suggest a 5hp Oneida or Clearvue.

2. Used is great but it doesn't fit everyone's idea of ideal

3. I wouldn't think tablesawS but spend some time and do your best to decide whether a cabinet saw or a slider fits your needs and go that way

4. If there is any stationary saw to have multiples of it is the bandsaw

5. I find a spindle sander and edge sander far more useful than a belt/disc combo

6. Don't use more than half your real budget on machines, the other stuff adds up quickly. Hand power tools, hand tools, finishing equipment, measuring and layout tools, sharpening, tooling etc etc.

7. While I have a shaper and love it I also have two router tables and honestly think they are more useful for a hobbyist so I would go there first. Shaper tooling adds up quickly and don't forget the feeder.

8. as for individual machines work out a line item budget and start a thread for each machine with your budget and intended usage

9. you have a great budget for a hobbyist but it will get eaten up quicker than you think if you plan to buy everything at once and do not forget wood, I know it sounds silly but I had a friend jump into woodworking and dumped his entire budget and more into machines/tools/shop and literally pushed it so far he had nothing to do but admire his tools until he recovered enough to actually buy decent wood.

[Ray Newman]

As Don Jarrvie posted, first off make your shop as energy efficient as possible. Energy costs only increase.

If I was designing and building a new shop, I would have all electrical outlets hooked up to a master kill switch, so when you leave the shop, you can cut off power to all the machines. I would keep one or two circuits free so lighting, HVAC utilities, etc., can run. If you have children/planning to have children, machinery/tools are like magnets to attract them. Definitely consider wood floor -- easier on your back and dropped tools.

As for your shop size, your 800 square feet will be eaten up quickly with all the machinery you are considering and that does not include an room for wood/sheet good storage. Also depending upon size, sliding table saws have a large foot print.

This will this be a "hobby" shop?

Now here's the main point of my response: How much woodworking experience do you have? Building and outfitting a shop strike me that you are new to this endeavor?

If I am correct, find woodworking retailers that offer classes to beginners. Also look at the local Adult Education programs. Recommend this as I have seen people start out with the best of intentions and no experience thinking that they can do it, only to become disillusioned once they find it is not as easy as the do-it-yourself TV shows/You Tube make it out to be and it takes time, and sometimes an inordinate amount of time doing set ups and test cuts.

[Jim Becker]

Why a 24" planer and only an 8" jointer? I could easily spend your budget for you, but I have the same question as Frank; what is your current level of experience?

That was the first thing that stuck out to me, too...wide jointers are wonderful for properly flattening stock before thickness planing. Since I do have a sliding table saw, I pretty much never "edge" joint...it's all the faces...and I like wide lumber, too.

[Darcy Warner]

That was the first thing that stuck out to me, too...wide jointers are wonderful for properly flattening stock before thickness planing. Since I do have a sliding table saw, I pretty much never "edge" joint...it's all the faces...and I like wide lumber, too.

I can feed multiple boards through my 24" and 30" planers, at a time. Makes for quick work.

[Michael Koons]

I agree with Jim. I have a 16" combo J/P and absolutely love the fact that I can face joint almost everything from the lumber yard. When I had an 8" jointer, I found myself ripping it to fit the jointer.

The other points are very good points and things I've had to think of...

1. I moved from a 16'x35' shop to a 40'x60' shop. I bought my slider for the first shop and now I wish i had a bigger slider now that I have the room for it. Planning is important.

2. I moved up to 3ph equipment and had to get a phase converter when I did. Not a big deal for me but something I needed to plan for.

3. Access. Expensive tools end up being VERY big and heavy. Getting a 1500 or 2000 lb tool from a driveway to a basement can range from challenging to nearly impossible depending on access.

With your budget, pricing won't be an issue. It's some of the other things that people mentioned before you'll need to think about.

[paul cottingham]

Yep. If I started over, I would buy a bandsaw (big one) and as big a jointer/planer combo as I could justify. I hardly ever edge joint by machine, but a combo machine would cover my bases at a reasonable cost. Add a d/p (I'd look for a used delta 220, but I have a real thing for them) and a mortiser, and good dust dust collection, and be done with it. Yes, no table saw. Too dangerous, too much real estate, Too much money, too crappy dust collection. Rip on the big band saw. Clean up with hand planes or your big jointer/planer.

Invest saved money (and space!) in hand tools, and benches.

[Matt Day]

This is a nearly impossible thread. There are more questions than answers based on the very small amount of info you gave us, and you will get many different answer.

Quite a first post!

[Brian Tymchak]

Since you mention building large cabinetry, I would suggest a track saw. A good sized slider TS will handle a sheet of plywood, but I think a track saw is more versatile.