Best 25k or 50k Workshop?

[Cody Armstrong]

1. Buy your tools and equipment as you need them.
2. Spend your money slowly and wisely.
3. Research everything extensively before you buy. Ask for advice on this forum about machines and tools.

[Matt Day]

I hope the OP isn't a troll and checks in on his thread. 3 pages so far of suggestions that could really use some clarification from the OP.

[Tim Boettcher]

Thanks Guys for all your responses.. I had a lot of reading to do when I came back today.

Here is more clarifications, to some of the questions.
* This is hobby.. i.e. after work, or weekend type stuff, or teaching the boys, the man toys.
* This is in So. California, so don't really need much environmental.
* The shop is on level with 2 sliding doors which can be opened for full and easy access.
* This is a move-in situation, so while I can add more power etc, it has pretty good distributed 220v power already, but need to verify if it has 3PH.
* I would consider myself a novice, with maybe 500hrs of shop time.
* I have a lot of hand tools, and currently have some Jet equipment, but want to move up to something of higher quality.
* Currently using a two stage cyclone with a trash can first stage.

I've not used a sliding table saw prior, so just don't know if this is a smart move. I have the room, but if large sheet stock is the main reason I may not need it.
I may just go with a standard cabinet saw with left and outfeed tables, as needed.

There used to be a show here in So. Cal, but nothing recently, so I am considering going to AWFS in Las Vegas (this July).
I hear it is a good place to see, and try out the stuff (if you want to buy new), and its within driving distance.

I'm not really interested in pouring all my money into one or two machines, but rather a decent collection.
I know these types of posts generate many viewpoints, but I'm a good reader, and will read everything.
I'll be going over a lot of other posts around here as well to get more grounded.

Thanks!
Tim

[Van Huskey]

First, if this is a residential neighborhood you will not have 3 phase power but it is a non-issue buying new and something that has easy work arounds if you buy commercial 3 phase machines.

IWF (Atlanta odd years) and AWFS (LV even years) can be a good place to see machines but fewer and fewer hobby level manufacturers are showing up but they are still a lot of fun.

I say deal with dust collection first, that alone is going to take some research to decide how you want to approach it.

Also spend some time pondering the slider vs cabinet saw question, there is a lot of information on it here and people are happy to answer questions.

So basically work on dust collection and electrical (if needed) first then the table saw and the rest of the main five machines (band saw, jointer, planer and drill press) then decide whether you are going shaper, router table or both.

Instead of taking the shotgun approach just work on researching individual machines one at a time. Start with dust collection (a cyclone with your budget) and I would suggest getting either a Clearvue or Oneida 5hp cyclone. Note DC may take the most research time to get a handle on so don't get discouraged if it seems like a time sink just for sucking up dust.

Finally, as I have said before, ask individual, focused questions and you will get more specific answers.

Good luck and welcome BTW.

[Eric Commarato]

Where is he going to get the extra square footage to put those things in? 800 sq ft is not a lot of shop room.

I wonder how much longer the thread will go with no guidance from the OP but if nothing else it is a look into peoples minds on how they would spend the money.

Take for example the last poster, who I am not picking on (and assume he just forgot) but has a shop with 3 table saws, 2 jointers, 2 drill presses and not enough bandsaws and no planer...

IMG_0242.jpgIMG_0243.jpgIMG_1157.jpg

O.k. Van, Here is my shop, it is 18'-0"x25'-0" 450 Square feet. It is fully functional, everything works and I actually build things in here. For sheet goods I do have a General 350 in my garage as it is a little tight in here, but I can rip and mill stock up to 8'-0" long with no problem. Here is what's in this space:

Penn State Tempest dust collector
Benchmaster Knee Mill
South Bend 7" Shaper
Clausing Drill Press
South Bend 9" Lathe
Miller Syncrowave 250 Tig Welder
Miller Thunderbolt Welder
Miller 211 Mig Welder
Delta DJ-15 Jointer
My 22"x60" Maple Bench
MiniMax S-45 Band Saw
MAX Spindle Sander
PM 26 Shaper
Delta Unisaw
PM 66 Table Saw
Tannewitz Model U Table Saw
Oliver 8" Jointer
General 130 Planer
General 160 Lathe
Delta 14" Bandsaw
Hammond Trim O Saw
Delta 17" Drill Press
Hammer Sensitive Drill Press
PM 30 Belt/Disk Sander
Oliver Die Filer
Delta Scroll Saw (under the stairs)

I might have left something out, but this does not count the General 350, PM 100 Planer, Boyar Schultz Surface Grinder, Boice Crane 1000 Planer, Delta Radial Arm Saw, Delta Contractor's Saw and my chop saw with Biesemeyer fence/table system in my other garage. I know your not picking on me...but don't always assume what is in someone's shop until you take a look. I'm sure the OP's know most of us have limited space, but some of us cram as much as we can into our shops, it can be done, and it can be safe and functional.

[Matt Day]

Man, 800sqft would be a dream shop for me! I'm working with 300 now. And I have most of the equipment he's asking about.

[David Traster]

Newbie here. I get why experts find this thread frustrating but I find the responses very interesting and helpful. For example, I wish I had started with dust collection! I'm just saying!

[Eric Commarato]

Newbie here. I get why experts find this thread frustrating but I find the responses very interesting and helpful. For example, I wish I had started with dust collection! I'm just saying!

David, you need to realize that wood shops are evolving projects in themselves. You will add, take away, upgrade, every step along the way. In retrospect, if I was beginning I would buy the best I could, used or new, what you can afford. The older equipment to me is better than the equipment made today, with exception of the Saw Stop and that technology. When I bought my first table saw, it was a Delta motorized table saw, it was a dangerous piece of junk. After that, I made the decision to just save up and buy the best that was out there starting with a good cabinet grade table saw.

[Van Huskey]

I'm sure the OP's know most of us have limited space, but some of us cram as much as we can into our shops, it can be done, and it can be safe and functional.

If it works for you great, but I would imagine that you are one of the extreme few that would put 3 table saws in a 450 sqft shop. Most people are more efficient when they have more room to work. Plus are you using some of the great outdoors to augment the shop space? It appears that way with the planer and TS against the door.

[Martin Wasner]

I often wonder with threads like this if the mods don't create a sock just to create traffic. Kind of a polite troll of sorts.....



You can pack a lot of in 800 sq/ft if you don't do larger projects. My first shop was 1200 sq/ft and I was pushing compete houses worth of cabinets out the door with more tooling than the OP has listed. My biggest problem was having a place to put product once built.

Hind sight, my shop now is probably even tighter at 2500 sq/ft and probably triple the amount of tooling.


Most of this list is in here, but there's a few things either in storage, or in the shop but not in use.

Unique Face Frame Clamp table

Castle TSM-21 Pocket borer

Derda 12" Chop saw

Blum Hinge Boring machine

Unique Door Clamp

Denray Downdraft table

Rockwell 3hp shaper

Powermatic PM66 5hp Tablesaw

Powermatic 6" Jointer

Delta 14" Bandsaw

Powermatic 1900cfm dust collector

Ritter 6" Edge Sander

Apex 2000 series 43" dual head widebelt sander

Striebig Compact Plus Panel saw

Powermatic 27S 5hp shaper

Powermatic 27 5hp shaper

Powermatic 1900cfm dust collector

Powermatic 15" Planer

Delta 3hp Tablesaw

Powermatic PM66 5hp Tablesaw

JLT 12' Clamp Rack

Cambell Hausfeld 5hp 80gal air compressor

Shop Fox single bag dust collector

Delta 3hp powerfeed

Reliable Cope Clamp

Reliable Cope Clamp

Steff Four wheel power feeder

SAC TS120 Shaper

SCMi T130N Shaper

Ritter R46 Line Bore

Whirlwind 212L pop up saw with Tigerstop

Jet Spindle Sander

Murphy-Rodgers MRSE-16-4D Dust Collector

Sac TS120 Shaper

Tormek Grinder

Torit 12" Airlock

Cantek JDT-75 Automatic Dovetailer

OMGA MEC-300 Cutoff saw

OMGA MEC-300 Cutoff saw

Honda EU2000i Generator

Onieda Dust Cobra Dust collector

OMGA MEC-300 Cutoff saw

SAC FS305 Jointer

Atlas Copco 15 HP screw type air compressor

Norhfield #4 Tablesaw

Tannewitz XJ Tablesaw

Diehl SLE-20 Straightline rip saw

You can fit a lot of stuff in a given space if you do it smart.

[Eric Commarato]

If it works for you great, but I would imagine that you are one of the extreme few that would put 3 table saws in a 450 sqft shop. Most people are more efficient when they have more room to work. Plus are you using some of the great outdoors to augment the shop space? It appears that way with the planer and TS against the door.

Yep it's tight in there...I have to turn sideways to get between some things. Good thing I'm skinny!

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Tim, I'm on shop revision number 3, almost 4 decades into the hobby.

I have a small basement shop in a Townhouse.

I have a Hammer B3 Winner sliding tablesaw with tilting spindle shaper. It has a tilt away stock feeder and scoring saw. I use the shaper a lot, tooling isn't that expensive, a carbide rebate head, a slotting cutter and a 40mm Euroblock head will do almost everything you need.

I also have a 12 inch Hammer jointer/planer, great machine, it's really nice having a 12 inch jointer.

I have a 17 inch bandsaw, I consider a 17 to 20 inch saw the perfect size, handles everything from logs to veneer making.

Dust collection, I have an Oneida cyclone, very pleased.

Don't forget a drill press, some portable machines such as a sander, jigsaw, circular saw, maybe a router and hand tools and a good bench.

Spend a lot of time looking at Hammer, Felder, Mini Max European machines, far better functionality, capacity, safety and accuracy than the more traditional NA machines.

My sliding saw is compact, yet in 2 minutes the outrigger is on and I can crosscut a large table top or straight line rough timbers. The shaper is built in, so no wasted floor space and I get a tilting spindle, sliding table shaper, fantastic.

I would avoid the lathe until you determine whether you want to get into turning, people either are, or aren't turners, not many occasional turners although that does describe me.............Rod.

P.S. Here's a video showing European machinery in operation, well worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV8A3XK3R0I&t=41s

[David Traster]

David, you need to realize that wood shops are evolving projects in themselves. You will add, take away, upgrade, every step along the way. In retrospect, if I was beginning I would buy the best I could, used or new, what you can afford. The older equipment to me is better than the equipment made today, with exception of the Saw Stop and that technology. When I bought my first table saw, it was a Delta motorized table saw, it was a dangerous piece of junk. After that, I made the decision to just save up and buy the best that was out there starting with a good cabinet grade table saw.

Agreed. I'm anewbie to this site and relatively new to woodworking. I've been collectingStanley Planes and other old tools and buying old iron. I buy some things as a “collector”and other things for my own use. I'm slowly developing a workable shop.

Working:
Powermatic 65 (not 66) table saw;
Powermatic Model 1150 Drill Press;
Delta 12" radial arm saw;
Monarch 8" Jointer (thinking about a Byrd-Shelix type spiral cutterhead)
Sears/Dunlap Lathe

Yet to be rebuilt:
Powermatic Model 45 Lathe (needs motor)
Sears/Belsaw Planer 12” (needs new rollers,at least)
Big Sears scroll saw.

I’m focusing on acquiring top quality handtools for my shop. I’m trying to take advice from Chris Schwartz to heart. Hesays buy one very good ½” wood chisel and use it until you absolutely needanother chisel. Then buy the one you need.

[Jim Becker]

I often wonder with threads like this if the mods don't create a sock just to create traffic. Kind of a polite troll of sorts.....

Not a chance in heck of that EVER happening... It would just "make for more work" and that's not the aim of a volunteer staff.

Jim
Forum Moderator

[Edwin Santos]

I wouldn't spend your money at once.
It's all contingent upon how you like to work. You cannot know this until you're years in - and even then it evolves.

Personally, I'd get a track saw, cordless drill, a plunge/fixed router, a miter saw, a jig saw, a shop vac, a random orbital sander, and a pocket hole jig (or Jessem dowel jig) and then take it from there.

You can do a surprisingly large number of projects with just this.

Buy your 'big 4' (tablesaw, planer, jointer, bandsaw) one at a time and as needed, if needed.


IMHO, the most questionable purchases would be a table saw (convenient for the majority, but a growing number of hobbyists prefer to work without one), and wide jointer/planers. These are expensive, and take up a lot of space. Some hobbyists don't find it inconvenient to work around a 6" jointing capacity of 12" planing capacity. And while I now own a 3hp cabinet Sawstop, if I were buying now with my current skill set/preferences, I might opt for a track saw and a better bandsaw.

When you buy your first of these four, I'd get a cyclone dust collector, a larger one than you think you need. But I would not pipe it permanently until you've purchased 3 or 4 of your larger tools.

A hobbyist shop is a highly individualized space so don't mistake the responses in this thread (incl mine) as anything more than personal (albeit well informed and valid) preferences.

This is very good advice. I have seen people become enthralled with woodworking and then quickly overwhelmed. Don't try to sprint through a marathon. The other thing to remember (if you're not an experienced veteran at present) is that tools don't come with skills.

It takes time to develop skills, learn techniques, things like jig building, building with story sticks, measuring from centerlines, machine setup, sharpening, understanding and developing a sense of design, and developing safety instincts. And let's not forget the wide world of finishing. Woodworking becomes much more satisfying once you've developed this knowledge base. This is why I like Prashun's advice which is basically to pace your tool acquisition to your skill/technique development.
Maybe allocate some $$ to your local woodworking school, if you have one. After a few classes, you'll have a much clearer idea of what to do.