Laser engraving business - good or bad idea?

[Ron Hampe]

Looking for opinions!

I am 63 and would like to start a new business that is far less physically demanding than the air duct cleaning I have been doing for the past 16 years. Laser engraving seems like a perfect fit as I already have a very well equipped wood shop, but I've also read a few posts where the authors say that cnc may be a better way to go. I’d love to hear your opinions on this as well.

I recently came across the 2009 reviews here describing the pros and cons of getting into this business. For those who have had engravers for a while now, how much has your market changed over the years? I'm also curious how much of an impact the cheaper DIY desktop models are having on your business?

I’m not looking to get rich but I can’t afford to invest in something that won’t at least pay for itself. I’m accustomed to long hours and I have a substantial middle income customer base that I would market to first. I also have app. 2000 bd. ft. of kiln dried ash, cherry, and red oak that has been in my basement for a few years and I’m thinking that laser and/or cnc pet related items would sell well at craft shows and online.

I am leaning toward Epilog as they are made in the states and will be doing a live demo at a woodworking show in Columbus on later this month. Also like that they are compatible with Coreldraw.

For cnc, I like the CAMaster Stinger, but may start with something cheaper like a Shark to test the waters. Your thoughts on these too please.

Thank you

[Bert Kemp]

My advice would be to see if there is a maker space near you become a member and see what the laser can do. learn how to use it, make some stuff and then see if you can sell it. Your not going to buy a laser and start making money. Most everyone here stared slow and took years to build up a business. The laser is just one tool in your bag of tricks. I wouldn't invest in a laser till you know you have a marketable product.This question has been asked here a 100 times. Do a search on starfting a laser business here and se what people have said in the past.

[Bill George]

Ditto and spend a lot of time on here just reading and reading plus some market research in your own area. The guys making money here are working hard and Not a 40 hour week that's for sure.

[Chris DeGerolamo]

Speaking from experience, working craft shows can be demanding and fruitless. We quickly found that simply paying for admission to said shows and handing out cards yielded more business than setting up a booth. Your mileage may vary...

The ground and pound approach to advertising has been good to us. Everyone loves something for free; handing out samples is a great way to get your product/business out there.

I believe the more you read on here, and the more others way in, you'll see that lasers are a great way to expand a current business operation. Buying a laser to start a business is a different animal and can be very profitable. Be aware that laser manufacturers will be more than happy to sell you a laser and tell you about all the money you can make selling [insert laser engraved items here]. Truth is (at least our truth), monetizing a laser means finding a niche and hitting it hard.

Hope this helps.

[Keith Outten]

Purchase the Stinger first. The profit margin for CNC work is much higher than laser engraving, that's been my experience. Once you are making money and have a steady income buy a Trotec laser and you will have an amazing capability with both machines.

No matter what you decide to do the best advice you will ever get here is to concentrate on your marketing as your number one priority. Try to stay away from walk in work, the profit you will derive from non-commercial work is very low compared to large commercial projects and servicing local companies.

Just my 2cents.
.

[Mike Null]

If your result is like the majority of others who tried craft shows you'll be selling your laser in short order. Don't even think about it.

Don't buy an Epilog until you see Trotec.

If you do your home work, you'll find that most of us who have started a post-retirement business try to appeal to commercial customers.

[Tim Bateson]

Unlike a lot of others... I believe the best profit is not in products, but as a Service business. Debatable - yes, but true in my case. Whether you sell a Product or a Service, do your homework first.

[Gary Hair]

Unlike a lot of others... I believe the best profit is not in products, but as a Service business. Debatable - yes, but true in my case. Whether you sell a Product or a Service, do your homework first.

I couldn't agree more! 95% of my revenue comes from engraving OPS - Other People's Stuff. This year was an exception in that I had a very large job reverse engraving and paint filling Duets. Even on that job the COGS was extremely low, the money I made on it was my labor to engrave and paint fill.

You have to be careful how you price your time, too many here are working long hours for too little pay. My typical rate is well in excess of $200/hour, and that's not possible on one-off jobs.

[Kev Williams]

^^ what they said

My dad bought his first engraving machine in 1966, and I've been at this full time since 1975. There's only been one time in all those years that we (I) made an engraved product first, THEN tried to sell it. I was able to find 3 people willing to take one for free. Period.

Nice product, people loved them, others are selling the same things daily, but I literally couldn't give them away.

A few years ago a couple of guys came here convinced they were going to be millionaires by selling custom engraved cutting boards. umm, okay, but I've heard that before. I engraved dozens of samples for their webpage and free giveaways. I was to prepare for an onslaught of orders after the big rollout, would I be able to handle them all? Could I get new lasers quick if need be?

Yawn, just as I suspected. Not only did the big rollout not produce an onlslaught orders, it produced NO orders. None. Ever. Never seen or heard from them again. They still have their own folder in my Corel files. I leave it there as a reminder

that's just 2 stories, I have more

Meanwhile, my phone and doorbell never stops ringing from people and businesses searching me out to do work we've never once advertised for- the service of engraving.

You'll never get people to open their wallets to buy something you're selling that YOU think is cool. Well, maybe not never, but you'll be one of the lucky ones if they do...
But they'll gladly give you their money if you can provide something they need--name badges, cubicle name plates, labels for a toolbox, replacement VIN plate for an old Jeep, their Ipad personalized, an award plaque, engraving the name of the retiring Fire Dept chief into an axe handle... when people find out you can do these things, word spreads.

the trick is, how to let people know you can make name badges, cubicle name plates, toolbox labels, replacement VIN plates, can personalize Ipads, make award plaques, and can engrave axe handles

You need much time and patience. And time to get skilled at engraving.

[John Kleiber]

Unlike a lot of others... I believe the best profit is not in products, but as a Service business. Debatable - yes, but true in my case. Whether you sell a Product or a Service, do your homework first.

Yes indeed, as for our operation, it is truly a service business.

[Neville Stewart]

Yes indeed, as for our operation, it is truly a service business.

Where are you in Houston John? Id love to stop in and say hello next time through.

[David Somers]

Ron,

I agree with the first few folks who said seek out a Maker Space and see how each works and what their limits are. YOu might even use them to develop products in small amounts and see how they are received.

Craft Fairs can be hit or miss. I do them, and have fun with them. But I also have a retirement annuity that I live on comfortably and income from craft fairs is a nice bonus as well as a fun social event. I have been averaging about $100/show hour so far, but that is in the higher volume Christmas season. Not sure how this will pan out in other seasons. I will also be selling on line and via Etsy or Amazon Handcrafts. Will see how it goes. I have already paid for my Chinese laser and CNC for the most part this season so after this I am free and clear sort of.

I also agree with folks who have been saying commercial work is a much better generator than one off work or selling retail at fairs and shows. You need to be careful how much you take on though. A number of us doing commercial work sound like their candle has a flaming wick at both ends they are trying to deal with. Too much success if you will.

One thing to keep in mind. If your desire is to use the laser for cutting wood to compliment your wood shop you will be tied up while you do the cutting. You cannot trust a laser that is cutting. You MUST watch it for fire. You cannot fire it up and go pee without high risk. So that is dead time to you. At least if you are engraving you do other things, or if your CNC is running you can usually let it run in the background. But not laser cutting. If you are primarily looking at laser cutting you may want to consider Chinese machines. They perform nearly as well as the western machines for cutting, and you will spend a lot less on the equipment, perhaps allowing you to buy more capacity that can help you. Bed size, tube power, etc. If you are engraving for a living then the Epi's and ULS and especially Trotec machines are the better bet.

Lastly, while I love both my Chinese CNC and my laser, if I were in a wood shop I might be tempted to rely on hard templates and a router table or shaper over a CNC. But that is my take on it. Development time on a CNC job can be significant when you include test runs and whatnot. You can do about the same with a template and at a much lower cost. They are cool though and with a solid unit and a good knowledge of the software you can do a lot.

Definately try to find a maker space and play with both so you have a feel for what we are all referring to.

Good luck!

Dave

[John Lifer]

Ron, I'll throw my penny into this. It's not worth two cents....
I've done craft shows as wood turner for about 5 years about 15 years ago. At near the start of the pen turning craze. I missed getting into the parts business, that's where the money is, but that's another story. (oh, there are a few REAL craftsmen out there making decent money on pens, but not nearly 1% of those making them). I made spending money, paid for my tools and supplies, but no real living money. Make crafts if you want to meet people and socialize at the shows. Not to make $. Most spend more than they'll make. I go to a couple here every year to look, and see several making things that are pretty, high priced and not selling.

As far as laser, I've had mine a couple of months. I am working to LEARN to use it, and my real goal this year is to earn enough to pay for the thing. If I can work my way into some greater income, great! I'm headed towards service also. I see very little possibility in items sales except thru a storefront and I'm not going that way.
Etsy, eBay etc are advertisers for me, there are already too many people making the same items that I can make. i.e. If I sell something thru one of those sites, it is more getting my name out in advertising. Nothing more.
Can't say anything about the CNC, never really thought about it too much.
If you HAVE to have it pay for itself, then it might be hard decision. I want to add a fiber already and I'm almost in same position. But with potential business opportunity, maybe not so far fetched.

[Bill George]

Just wondering if we can get all these Threads about going into the laser engraving business put into a Sticky so next week when someone asks the same question again we can just refer them to the Sticky?

[Ron Hampe]

I sincerely appreciate your advice but honestly don't think its worth the price to belong to a maker space. The only one around is in Pittsburgh and I'd rather lose money than drive in that city. I've also been blessed with a wife that says if you want it, buy it and my goal is to have something to do in "retirement". While I have no intention of closing my current business for several years, I don't want to wait until the last minute to start learning a new one. After reading your posts, I'm leaning more toward a cnc, but space is an issue. I have a really nice location for a laser, but just bought a panel saw and fitting a large bed cnc in my shop would be a challenge.