What am I doing wrong????

[Kevin Smira]

Thanks all for the comments. I have a friend (accomplished woodworker) that suggested that perhaps the set and rake were off from the factory? Do you think this could be the issue? I mean, no matter how lightly I have the saw on the wood, it will not go forward at all. Generally speaking though, once I get it going, and I do my part, it cuts extremely well.

[Sean Hughto]

We all find our ways. This works for me with minimal futzing. The sound never occurred to me as something to dislike.

[John Crawford]

It helps me to remember to take as much weight off the saw as possible when you are starting it.

There are some brief but helpful descriptions of this principle in this "Homestead Heritage School" video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1eta_uOw44

[Matt Evans]

You may be trying to go to slow. First time I used handsaws in general I had a difficult time establishing a kerf because I went to slow and to light. Set up your saw and use your fingers as a guide, then rapidly push to start your cut. I don't put pressure on the saw, just give it a quick half a saw plate length push forward. That gets me started and I can complete the cut from there without my thumb and forefinger as guides.

Takes a bit of practice to get going quickly and accurately, but lots of layout lines on scrap and a few hours time and you should be able to cut them fast and easy with that saw.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Kevin, if you live near Columbus Ohio, give me shout and stop by.

Assume I am using my Bad Axe saw, my easiest to start saw, and I am able to just drop it and go. Then, I switch to my Lie Nielsen. Nope, can't do it without a few test cuts and then i am mostly good to go.

On a whim, "start" the kerf with a chisel? Sometimes when I am cutting dovetails, i will drive a chisel into the line then cut out a small kerf size grove on the cut side of the line. I don't always do this, but sometimes it helps.

[Chuck Nickerson]

The back bottom horn is on the saw for a reason. It is a delicate pressure with the heal of your hand against this to aid in just kissing the surface of the cut when getting a saw started. It takes a little practice to get used to it.
jtk

Do not miss this comment, although Jim's version is a little different than mine. When starting a cut I apply my handle pressure on the lower half of the handle.
Its more vertical angle puts more of the force horizontal, helping the saw not dig in.

[Jim Koepke]

You may be trying to go to slow. First time I used handsaws in general I had a difficult time establishing a kerf because I went to slow and to light. Set up your saw and use your fingers as a guide, then rapidly push to start your cut. I don't put pressure on the saw, just give it a quick half a saw plate length push forward. That gets me started and I can complete the cut from there without my thumb and forefinger as guides.

Takes a bit of practice to get going quickly and accurately, but lots of layout lines on scrap and a few hours time and you should be able to cut them fast and easy with that saw.

This made me think a bit about my own technique.

As Matt says, draw a lot of layout lines on a piece of scrap. My cuts are started pretty much as Matt describes with one minor difference. The say blade is held a few thousandths of an inch above the surface when it is started forward and softly lowered to the work. You may get a bit of bouncing in the beginning, After a bit of practice you should be able to get a good kerf started.

My objection to pulling a saw back to start a cut is it can bounce around a bit and spoil the work. It can also make little divots in the kerf making it hard to get the say moving forward in the cut.

Sometimes just for a challenge when all the layout lines have been sawn, I will try cutting between the lines. Mostly this is done when a saw is in the process of being tuned up or sharpened.

Kevin, if you live near Columbus Ohio, give me shout and stop by.

Likewise if you are in the Portland, Oregon area.

jtk

[Kevin Smira]

This made me think a bit about my own technique.

As Matt says, draw a lot of layout lines on a piece of scrap. My cuts are started pretty much as Matt describes with one minor difference. The say blade is held a few thousandths of an inch above the surface when it is started forward and softly lowered to the work. You may get a bit of bouncing in the beginning, After a bit of practice you should be able to get a good kerf started.

My objection to pulling a saw back to start a cut is it can bounce around a bit and spoil the work. It can also make little divots in the kerf making it hard to get the say moving forward in the cut.

Sometimes just for a challenge when all the layout lines have been sawn, I will try cutting between the lines. Mostly this is done when a saw is in the process of being tuned up or sharpened.



Likewise if you are in the Portland, Oregon area.

jtk

Thanks for all the comments so far. If I was in Columbus or Portland, I would definitely stop by. However, I'm in North Alabama

[Kevin Smira]

So maybe it was just technique. I went back outside after work and tilted the toe of the saw (that's the front, right?) downward and it started much easier. As it got going, I dropped my hand down and it started cutting fairly good.

[Stewie Simpson]

Kevin; I haven't purchased any of the Veritas backsaws, but from viewing the general feedback the saw teeth tend to be aggressively set. Yours might need a light stoning on both sides to calm it down. That been said, they appear to be a good entry saw at an affordable cost. Hope it works out for you.

regards Stewie;

[William Fretwell]

If the saw does not work out for you try a Japanese pull saw. The long handle gives great control, the fine kerf is straight, a light touch gives you the result you need.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Kevin

Let's assume that the saw is good and it is user error. What could be going wrong?

Firstly, this saw has 14 degrees of rake, which should make it an easy starter, even if there was too much set. More set will increase resistance and accuracy, but will not affect the starting, per se.

Secondly, since you are new to this, it is likely that you are doing the newbie thing, that is, gripping the handle too tightly and using too much force. You need to hold the saw lightly, as if holding a baby's hand, and use light down force - essentially, let the weight of the saw do the cutting.

Thirdly, if you saw downwards, you will increase the effective rake and increase resistance ...



What you want to do is the opposite of this, that is, saw upwards ...



This will lower the effective rake and reduce resistance further.

Lastly, there is no shame in pulling the saw back before cutting forwards. Many do this. If it gets you sawing, so much the better, since the answer to your problem lies with practice.

Light hands, light saw, cutting upwards.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Robert Engel]

Kevin,

So much depends on hand pressure and the type/grain of the wood that its difficult to comment whether its definitely the saw grabbing or not. If you're friend is experienced and thinks it is, it probably is. Keep in mind the 14TPI. I have both 14 and 20 and generally use the 14 in soft wood and 20 in hardwood.

All this being said, I will go against the current of the thread a bit and say I think you're friend might be correct to place to focus on the saw. The reason I say this is I also found the saw to be a bit more grabby than I expected. But they did get better the more I used them. I did lightly dress the teeth on one of them & I think it did help a bit. But this shouldn't be necessary.

After doing quite a few DT's , I have to say I am not really that happy with the sawn surface. I believe this has to do with the way the rake and set of the teeth are done at the factory. Don't get me wrong, I love LV and am very happy with all the other tools I have - except for these saws.

As for the back stroke, I've always started every hand saw cut like that unless ripping soft wood.

Bad Axe is out of my budget range, but I do plan to obtain a LN DT saw before my next big DT project. And I may have to eat my words about LV.......

[lowell holmes]

Hi Kevin




Lastly, there is no shame in pulling the saw back before cutting forwards.


Regards from Perth

Derek

Works for me.

[Derek Cohen]

Just to emphasise ...

The Veritas dovetail saws, both 14- and 20 tpi, have extremely relaxed rake, and this makes them some of the easiest saws to start. In fact, they cut slower than many others as a result. If you are finding them grabby, then it is more likely to be a user error. Of course, the saw could be at fault. The easiest way to check this is to try another's saw, while another tries your saw.

Regards from Perth

Derek