Member
I used table saws without a riving knife or spreader continuously for over 40 years without an accident. I was trained on how to use a table saw and avoid dangerous situations in shop class in the late 60's. I don't know where someone would get that training today - perhaps from a good book. The truth is most table saw users do not get hurt with their saw. An accident is absolutely not inevitable.
Originally Posted by Wayne Lomman
Contributor
Actually all table saws are potentially dangerous--they are designed to cut substances which are much harder to cut than human flesh. No amount of gimmicks can make them safe. It is just that many operators work unsafely.
Lee--those are the same magnetic feathering boards I (sometimes) use.
OP--that Rigid c/l table saw at least has a cast iron top. It might be a good candidate.
"Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."
Member
Sorry but blaming the operator and saying saws are dangerous anyway is just an excuse for doing things the same old bad way. Of course woodworking machinery is dangerous. That is blindingly obvious. You can use machinery that is inherently engineered to be safer than other machinery. If as consumers you continue to accept low standards, the manufacturer's will continue to sell low standard machines as it is lower cost for them.
I apologise (again. I don't know why) for trying to make your workshops safer. Cut the excuses and think about it. Cheers
Contributor
I really don't want anyone trying to make me do anything at all in my own workshop. But thanks for the thought.
"Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."
Member
No-one it's making you do anything, Andy. That would impacting on your freedom. You do whatever you like in your own workshop.
However it would be remiss of someone as experienced in both timber trade work and workplace health and safety as I am to let poor safety advice go unanswered. I have no personal axe to grind with this. Cheers
Member
There's a difference between offering and forcing it. That's one reason I will never forgive Sawstop for what they tried to pull, trying to force all saws sold in the U.S. to use their proprietary technology, at a cost, through force of law. Luckily, that didn't happen. Anyone who wants to buy a Sawstop is welcome to do so. Anyone who doesn't, doesn't have to. Neither side is any better, inherently, than the other. But while I am entirely fine with the technology being available, it is no substitute for actually engaging in safe work practices in the shop. The Sawstop technology is useless if you never come into contact with the blade. If you do, that's something you're doing wrong. You are at fault. The technology only exists to save you from your own stupidity.I really don't want anyone trying to make me do anything at all in my own workshop. But thanks for the thought.
I'm fine just not being stupid in the first place.
Member
Wayne, a splitter can be added to any of those saws, making it a bit safer, while enjoying the inherent benefits of a larger operating surface and more mass. Feel better now?
Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....
Contributor
Here are my other 3 table saws, also with no guards, splitters or riving knives. Another advantage to the clear tops is that these saw tables are sometimes covered in poly sheeting and used for extra assembly bench area when doing large or complex glue-ups.
The first is setup with a fine tooth, carbide, crosscut blade. The 2 in the 2nd photo are setup with carbide rip blade and dado.
"Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."
Member
If you can't find anything on Craigslist, stretch your budget to $530 and get the Ridgid R4512. It is sturdy and has good safety features. I like it.
Contributor
I knew this would turn into a riving knife thread. Alex, if you don't know much about machines and how they work, find a friend who can help you assess a saw, particularly if you buy used. Poorly fitting fences, an arbor not adjusted to the miter slot, AND even an improperly sized riving knife can screw up your life. Plywood should seldom be cut on a small saw and bevels can be killers if you don't set the fence to the proper side of the blade. A fence that seems good on the right might bind on the left. You need someone to show you the ropes. A half hour with someone who knows how to use the saw might be a bigger deal than riving vs splitter. And yes, riving knives need to be sized properly and few are. Most saws come with one that is thin enough to clear most blade thicknesses. They should be thicker than the plate but thinner than the kerf. Dave
[OP]
Guest
I understand that safety features are there for a reason and I would definitely would want to have them in my table saw. I also know that experienced users can work without them because they know their equipment and how to safely work with it. My father in law is an electrician by trade and he never flips circuit breakers when working on a live wire. He just knows how to do his job without getting killed. Me on the other hand, I double and triple check that everything is disconnected even for a simple job like changing a bulb. Same with woodworking. I am just not experienced enough. That's why I think I do need some of the safety features. That plus safety glasses, common sense and most likely a trip to a library or as you have suggested woodworking class. All good info here coming from both sides of the discussion.
My $80 113. Craftsman/Emerson saw worked well for me after I added a good fence, made my own ZCI and added the Micro-Jig MJ splitter. I later added an overarm guard/collector. All in all I spent much less than an upper end tracksaw setup and had all the advantages of a tablesaw.
By the time I was done I had spent what a better saw would cost BUT, I was able to get the saw, go to work and slowly improve it as I could afford to over time. I did add the fence and splitter right off because working without a good version of either is a poor idea IMHO.
"A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".
– Samuel Butler
Member
I know it may come as a surprise to you but there are people who simply can't afford new saws with the latest safety technology like riving knives or blade brakes. Are you saying they should give up because the hobby is too expensive or too dangerous?
Last edited by Art Mann; 02-04-2017 at 7:17 PM.
NH Woodworkers Guild
There are many good used saws out there in your price range. Yes, the Sawstop is great and wonderful and all that, but you can still get hurt with it. For the money you have to spend you could get a decent used contractor saw or maybe even a cabinet saw that needed a little work and if you look around, you may be ablew to find one with a decent fence and the blade guard/splitter still there.
That DeWalt, or for that matter, any of the small portable saws, has very limited capacity and more chance to cause an injury because it will be pushed beyond it's safe working capacity.
CPeter
Member
To all and sundry, in Australia one doesn't have to make a choice between a safe saw and an unsafe saw. Any old banger still has a riving knife. My point here is that you can buy any saw you want and use it how you want with whatever safety equipment you want. That is your freedom of choice. To advise someone else to do something when there is a safer and no less productive way is negligent and culpable in my view. Safety is about progress. If there is a better and safer way to do things, go for it. As I said in another post somewhere, my father was compensated in the 1930's for a swap injury because his boss set it up without a riving knife. So that makes it at least 80 years that riving knives have been mandatory in Australia. It's a no brainer here. What you do in USA is your affair, I just mistakenly thought an alternative viewpoint might lead to enlightenment. Cheers
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