First table saw: new or used - questions about safety

[Alex Mielko]

I am pretty new to woodworking. So far, I have built a workbench and couple of reach-in closet built-ins. Both which turned out pretty nice for a first time project. My next project is a big walk-in closet for which I think a table saw would be beneficial. With a limited budget I am looking for an used TS on Craigslist. There, I can get old Craftsman or Ridgid for about $125-150. I am fine with restoration, surface rust removal, painting, etc as long as it doesn't double the saw's price. All would be good except that I am worrying about lack of safety features in older table saws. There is usually no riving knife, blade guard, etc. I am not sure how often kickback occurs but wearing football helmet and bulletproof vest for every cut is not really an option. Another option would be new Dewalt DWE7480 from Home Depot which I believe comes with all the safety features missing on older saws. At $379, I would definitely be stretching my budget but hey, safety is worth it.

So given all that, what would you do if you were in my place? I understand that more solid older table saw is better than the portable Dewalt, but then there are the safety features that older saws are missing. Besides the built-in closet and maybe patio table and bench, I do not see more uses for the table saw so spending hundreds of dollars doesn't make much sense. I am just tired of using my DIY track jig for circular saw. It looks like I am wasting too much time measuring, clamping and cutting.

[David Kumm]

There will be a lot of discussion about riving knives but my take is that with a limited budget, an old Delta contractor saw ( the 9" was a nice unit )or even cabinet saw, set up correctly, and with a fence that keeps it's settings is more safe than a low end new saw with the riving knife. you can make a splitter or buy an MJ splitter to deal with the kickback. A cheap saw with a fence that doesn't set squarely over and over is way more dangerous so be careful with low end machines ( new or used ). You are spinning a blade right in front of you so a stout arbor assembly and good fence are important. Dave

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Alex, you can add a splitter and guard to your saw, there's no reason not to have basic safety features on your saw.

Do you have dust collection? For a tablesaw you'll need above and below the blade collection, something you can do with a new guard.............Regards, Rod.

[Chris Hachet]

The largest problem with the older Craftsman saws is the fence, which IMHO is junk. Keeping the fence at a true parallel to the blade is more important than almost anything else in terms of kick backs or getting a hand sucked in when you try to force a piece through.

I would honestly not try to rip a 2 x 4 with a stock unmodified craftsman contractors saw. Too much potential for kickback IMHO.

I had for ten years a craftsman with an Incra fence system and a router in the extension wing with a router lift, it worked rather well until the saw itself became completely worn out.

For what it is worth, if it were me I would buy a track saw and do everything I could possibly do with it before I would drop a dime on anything other than a fairly decent table saw. If you don't want to buy a Festool for $660 which would be beyond your budget, look at a used or reconditioned Dewalt or Makita, both of which can be had pretty reasonably.

I really do not even like the Saw stop contractors table saw....and its $1500 or so IIRC...

If you stay with woodworking, and decide you want a decent table saw later, I would budget a good bit more than you are talking about. My neighbor just bought a contractors saw from a big box store and spent about $600, not sure what brand it is, but it is crapola in terms of holding an adjustment and working properly.

So if you do follow your original thinking and get a Craftsman contractors saw, do something to replace the fence. With that done, it can perform acceptably. Methinks the table is 27 inches with the craftsman contractors saw, which is about the same as the older Powermatic and Delta saws, so a used fence might be available affordably.

Good luck with whatever you decide. You might also want to learn to cut with a hand saw at some point-minimal dust, minimal noise, rather safe, no extension cord to trip over, and you are building a skill set that will allow you to hand cut dovetails and other joints.

And sorry if this sounds discouraging, but there is not much available in affordable table saws IMHO at the moment.

[Chris Hachet]

Also, blade quality is key to getting a cheap table saw to work well. Thin Kerf blades do wonders with low horsepower saws.

In terms of safety, I find keeping the floor around the saw and the work surface of the saw really clean a huge help. Feather Boards will help also, especially in terms of keeping the stock in line and flat while you are feeding it into the saw.

Also, Table saws generate a huge amount of dust, fabricating some sort of simple dust collection system, will make things much easier and keep your lungs clear. A cyclone (the cheaper under $100 kind) between the saw and your shop vac can save your filter and make your work orders of magnitude more efficient.

[Chris Hachet]

Hi Alex, you can add a splitter and guard to your saw, there's no reason not to have basic safety features on your saw.

Do you have dust collection? For a tablesaw you'll need above and below the blade collection, something you can do with a new guard.............Regards, Rod.

I second this strongly!

[Wayne Lomman]

Alex, anyone who recommends a table saw with no riving knife is sending you to hospital sooner or later. I apologise but in this regard, US safety laws are woefully lacking. If you have a riving knife and guard, you are not going to wear any timber. If this puts one out of reach, stick to the track saw until you can afford a safe one. Cheers

[Jerome Sidley]

I have the Dewalt and i would buy another one it is a good robust saw with a very good fence and has the safety features you need.

[scott spencer]

Alex, anyone who recommends a table saw with no riving knife is sending you to hospital sooner or later. I apologise but in this regard, US safety laws are woefully lacking. If you have a riving knife and guard, you are not going to wear any timber. If this puts one out of reach, stick to the track saw until you can afford a safe one. Cheers

That's an oversimplification that I don't agree with totally. A riving knife is a good feature, but there are many other aspects of safety, and a splitter is a very reasonable substitute for a true riving knife. There are good and bad examples of both riving knives and splitters. A lot of people think of saws in terms of blade size, rip capacity, "safety features", and horsepower, but not things like table size, mass, upgradeability, feasibility to repair, accuracy, and actual use of the saw. Here's some food for thought...putting safety "features" aside for the moment, due to the lack of operating room in front of the blade and the lack of overall mass, a small portable jobsite saw is inherently less safe than a full size saw. It's not likely that you'll ever be able to add a true riving knife to an older Craftsman or Ridgid full size contractor saw, but you can add a good splitter, which essentially does the same job, and will be gaining a saw with better basic bones, more stability, and much more growth potential. A larger contractor saw not only has a significantly larger landing zone in front of the blade (which is the space you have available to stabilize the work piece and get it flush to the table and fence before it reaches the blade), but also has a much quieter motor with more torque, standard miter slots, and can easily accept aftermarket fences, better wing extensions, router tables, and miter gauges. Motor replacement is also much simpler and economical if necessary. An aftermarket riving knife called the B.OR-K does exist for some older saws, but not the Emerson design on the Ridgid/Cman contractor saws.

A portable saw can weigh as little as 50#, is made from plastic, aluminum, pot metal, and other composites that all flex pretty easily, and is often no more than 17" or 18" deep. A full size contractor saw can weigh 250-300#, is made of steel and cast iron, and is 27" deep with upwards of 3x the operating space in front of the blade. A mobile base can be added for easy mobility around the shop. If you need to move the saw from site to site, the features of a smaller saw are an advantage....if not, they're a liability compared to a stationary saw for home shop use.

Which saw do think is easier to safely position the workpiece on before contact with the blade?

[Darcy Warner]

Alex, anyone who recommends a table saw with no riving knife is sending you to hospital sooner or later. I apologise but in this regard, US safety laws are woefully lacking. If you have a riving knife and guard, you are not going to wear any timber. If this puts one out of reach, stick to the track saw until you can afford a safe one. Cheers

Yeah, sure thing.

[Alex Mielko]

Thank you guys for all the very informative replies. After your input, I am leaning toward a saw with some of the safety features. Problem is that most used saws either lack those features or parts are missing. This leaves me with the new Dewalt saw which I understand has small work area and it is not so safe anyway. I still have some time before I tackle my next project (built-in closet) so I will be on a lookout for an used saw which is a bit newer than Craftsman's from the 60s. Maybe I am going to luck out and get one with splitter and blade guard.

[Chris Hachet]

You might consider saving some more money and buying a decent entry level saw that has those features. The Grizley 0715 is about $800...I think you will find yourself unhappy with a lesser saw.

There is not much under $500 in used table saws.

[Alex Mielko]

You might consider saving some more money and buying a decent entry level saw that has those features. The Grizley 0715 is about $800...I think you will find yourself unhappy with a lesser saw.

There is not much under $500 in used table saws.

While at some point I may be able to afford $800 saw, there is no way I am going to be able to fit one in my garage as I only have a single car garage. It is a bit longer than standard garages so I can fit workbench and saw against the back wall but all has to be movable so I can pull it away from the wall when working. So unfortunately cabinet saw is out of question. Thanks for the input though. Much appreciated.

[Chris Hachet]

While at some point I may be able to afford $800 saw, there is no way I am going to be able to fit one in my garage as I only have a single car garage. It is a bit longer than standard garages so I can fit workbench and saw against the back wall but all has to be movable so I can pull it away from the wall when working. So unfortunately cabinet saw is out of question. Thanks for the input though. Much appreciated.

A cabinet saw with a mobile base would be easily moveable.

...and so sorry if I came across snide or condescending in any way with my posts/suggestions. I feel your pain....I worked from about 1990 until last Month with the Craftsman Contractors style saw (with upgraded fence as I discussed above). Bought a used Delta Unsiaw from 1973 that I am restoring so I can have a decent saw in my shop. There are really very few good answers of any sort that I know about without spending a good chunk of change.

Best of luck and let us know what you come up with!

[Tony Pisano]

After reading your post and all the replies, then going back and re-reding your post, here is what I noticed:
You have done a few small projects with good success.
You want to tackle a bigger project, a walk in closet.
You don't think you will have much use for a table saw in the future.
With all of that in mind, I'm not sure a table saw is what you need at this time. We all always want more tools, but I don't think a table saw, especially a portable one would be that helpful for the project you atr planning to do. The table and fence to blade space would be too small for most plywood cutting. What else would you be using it for on this project? Do you have a chopsaw? I would do this job with what you have, bask in the glory, then decide where you want to go from there. I see lots of ads for tools and other stuff that say used once then sat in the corner for years. My son and I built a full size pull down murphy bed with not much more than a makita hand held circular saw with a quality blade, straight edge, square, and palm sander.