Times UP - I need a 3hp shaper - recommendations please

[Sam Murdoch]

I have a Jet 35x with the 3 hp motor and 1.25" spindle, using a 6.5" diameter raised panel cutter, it easily cut with one pass with a power feeder. It never bogged down and I ran it between 4000 to 6000 rpm.

I would make the doors - some things are never done how you would when you "custom order" them. I am just finishing my kitchen with birds eye maple panels and cherry stiles and rails.

I bought a Felder shaper in Atlanta last summer and would give you a great deal on the Jet, with loses of 3/4" cutters, mobile bast and a tenon table.

Thanks John. Worth a conversation.

[Sam Murdoch]

I have a Jet 35x with the 3 hp motor and 1.25" spindle, using a 6.5" diameter raised panel cutter, it easily cut with one pass with a power feeder. It never bogged down and I ran it between 4000 to 6000 rpm.

I would make the doors - some things are never done how you would when you "custom order" them. I am just finishing my kitchen with birds eye maple panels and cherry stiles and rails.

I bought a Felder shaper in Atlanta last summer and would give you a great deal on the Jet, with loses of 3/4" cutters, mobile bast and a tenon table.

That is precisely the point of "custom". No production shop will make any attempt to align drawer front grain left to right or organize panels to compliment each other in a set let alone grain and color of door parts in a pair or in a select group. Won't be as cost effective for me to do it but the job will certainly reflect the extra care.

[Mel Fulks]

I'm with you ,Sam. Picky on getting good grain matches. Pretty sure your client knows quality and will get it.

[Patrick Walsh]

I did not read your thread all the way through or forgot you mentioned it was hard maple. Im also building a large hard maple kitchen right now but its all getting conversion varnish.

I would never sub out stain grade doors. Now way they would be up to snuff to my expectations. Maybe the clients but even then probably not. Just building stain grade cabs from two different sources of stock is asking for major trouble.

[john lawson]

If you are patient and have the time before the job is due I believe you can do it on your budget.

I just helped with an estate sale where we sold a 3hp taiwanese shaper for 550 with three spindles. You can buy a power feeder for less than 500 used. Of course, you have to wait until one shows up, make sure it's okay, then find the power feeder. But they are around, and your area should be good to look for one.

Good luck

[Cary Falk]

Hard to come by? There were probably more of those made than any other shaper. There are numerous sources for rebuilt spindles as well.
Why do people want to run router bits in a shaper? The speed is not there for that.

I have been looking several times without much luck. What i did find was crazy expensive. I run router bits all the time without issue

[Andy Giddings]

Maybe stating the obvious but if all you are doing is rail and stile in 3/4 hard maple with ply panels wouldn't a 3HP router mounted in a solid router table work? Especially as you don't want to spring for a feeder. Even if you wore out one set of cutters, you could buy several sets for the cost of good shaper tooling

[Sam Murdoch]

Maybe stating the obvious but if all you are doing is rail and stile in 3/4 hard maple with ply panels wouldn't a 3HP router mounted in a solid router table work? Especially as you don't want to spring for a feeder. Even if you wore out one set of cutters, you could buy several sets for the cost of good shaper tooling

Yes, of course. I already own several 3hp routers. The frustration of setting up and maintaining accuracy from one step to the next however is extremely frustrating without a good lift. Such a router lift is expensive (rightly so) and a properly built and stable table takes up nearly as much room as a shaper. Add in the screaming of the router, poor dust collection and small cutters - I'd much rather have a shaper. The shaper would not be a luxury. I would certainly use it regularly. Many times for many projects I have designed around not having a shaper or settled for stock moldings when custom would have been preferred. I've got an order in now to a custom molding shop for more than a 1400 feet of spectacular moldings reproducing 19th century plaster originals. More typically I need 20 or 30 feet. An in house shaper would be excellent. I just have room constraints that preclude getting bigger than the 3hp size.

I started this thread to hear of people's experience with that size shaper. I agree that a power feeder and a coping sled for my intended project would be valuable. I will likely get those but first I needed to settle in on the right shaper. I have until the end of April to line up all those ducks.

Good discussion all!

[brent stanley]

You may have time to keep your eye open for a deal and make out ok. I got my 2HP Wadkin for $300 and only had to grease it. It sounds like you had a shop before with lots of shapers and probably lots of tooling too so you already know common tooling costs etc. One thing to think of is the size of the table and attaching a power feeder mast to it. I love my small shaper, but just did not have room on the table to attach a feeder so had to mount a bracket off to the side. Not a problem, but it increases the footprint and took some time.

If you're looking into lower cost, less production oriented tooling, have you thought about the multi profile blocks that use HSS tooling? Just unbelievable finish quality, and last for a long time. Depending on the profile, you're looking at router bit costs to replace the knives and the good ones will last at least an entire kitchen in Maple, probably not in exotic, abrasive hardwoods though. I get around 1500 linear feet from my knives in hardwood. They can be sharpened at home if you're set up for it and it's not a matched set (ie. where a tongue has to match perfectly with a groove or a rail profile has to match perfectly with a stile profile for example). I use HSS almost exclusively and though I'm not high production, I am commercial.

B

[rudy de haas]

I had a comparable problem: work to do for which a router seemed inadequate and not enough cash to buy the higher end shaper I wanted. I got lucky: a guy in Calgary had bought used Craftex (grizzly) shaper 15 years ago, used it for his own cabinets, and parked it until his wife sold it to me cheap - including a power feeder. The machine is essentially a delta 3HP/220V with different paint and is both a joy and a pain to use. It's a pain because set-up takes forever (the fence is NOT highly mobile ) but a joy because it'll happily rip a 3" blade through jatoba without really changing its motor sound.

If this is really a one-major job purchase for you, I'd suggest doing what I did: wait until you get lucky, accept the time it takes to set up each job (i.e,. accept a difficult to use fence), hold out for a power feeder, and just plan your work to minimize the number of set-ups needed.

[Brian W Smith]

Our 3hp grizz was 600 used.It is aligned as an outfeed table for big BS.This only works because this shaper is for running smallish moulds....say less than 2x4".It's a real money maker though on small'sh profiles.It's backed up to a 5hp shaper,they share the same powerfeed.....its mounted on a 1/2" thick steel plate that connects the two,and simply swings around.But we rarely use the PF on the 3hp.Both have inhouse,custom fence setups.The 3 uses an incredibly easy to adj roller wheel hold down that dbls as a guard.

Interestingly,I'd sorta rather use the 3hp.It has many more attachments.....even an aluminum off side fence.Plus it's,closer to the tooling cabinets,haha.Just sayin,the 3hp size...with some serious attention paid to fences and accoutrements is fine for smaller commercial applications.

[Jeff Duncan]

I started this thread to hear of people's experience with that size shaper. I agree that a power feeder and a coping sled for my intended project would be valuable. I will likely get those but first I needed to settle in on the right shaper. I have until the end of April to line up all those ducks.

Good discussion all!

As far as experience with those sized machines I've owned the Delta HD and was greatly disappointed with it. It's accuracy was questionable on a good day and heavy duty? Not even close! I sold it after a short while and picked up a brand new Powermatic 27. Significantly heavier machine, crappy fence, nice big motor and capable of doing some larger cuts. I killed the bearings with less than 2 years of use and knew I needed a bigger more robust machine. You can certainly get by with the Powermatic, and many guys I'm sure do, but if your trying to make money you may be disappointed in the long run.

Although I don't have experience with them I think something like a used Northfield, Oliver, or Moak shaper might fit your needs. Smaller sized shapers much more heavily built than the hobby brands. They also tend to go for very reasonable money. There was a guy couple years back in New Hampshire trying to sell a Northfield that looked to be in good condition for a very reasonable price and was listed on e-bay for well over a year! If you look around a bit, and maybe even post a wanted to buy ad here and there, you might find yourself a pretty decent machine for not much investment. Just need to do a bit of homework and have some patience

good luck,
JeffD

[Jim Andrew]

It takes me as long to make the drawers as it does to build the boxes. And then the doors. Did figure out I need to make the next set of doors with 7/8" thick frames, so I can send the whole door through the widebelt after assembly.

[Ray Selinger]

This might be the best thread I've read on the 'net for shapers. https://forum.canadianwoodworking.co...r-cutter-where It's obviously Canadian. But the use of European tooling expands the usefulness of the light duty shaper and at considerably more inexpensive price than even router bits, let alone shaper cutters.All without the use of a power feeder .These vids will give you an idea of what they are talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mylYGzZC2yU

Most of the Grizzly G1026 and the like are clones of the Powermatic #26, a simple sturdy design. I think it's a better design than the Delta heavy duty.