Need Help with dust collection planning

[George Werner]

I realize that in some cases a 4" pipe might be the only size that would fit in a certain application. Many are very reluctant to do any surgery on their machines to enlarge a 4" pickup to a 6". I don't blame them, I didn't want to do that either. I was able to work around that issue in some cases by using manifolds that have multiple pickup hoses that roughly total the 6" size. This post shows how some of my machines were adapted: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...pipe&highlight=

Thank you for this! I just bought 70' of the 6" thinwall sewer pipe yesterday and have been racking my brain on how in the world I was going to adapt a 6" pipe to my bandsaw and planer without reducing to 4".

This also has me thinking I don't need to enlarge the 4" port on my table saw after all since I also have an overarm dust hood that is connected at the same time. The overarm dust guard takes a 4" hose, but reduces to 3" at the blade. Would increasing the port on the saw itself to 6" be overkill, or would it still be worth it based on the "more airflow=more better" formula? Running a 2HP cyclone venting directly outside and the TS is pretty much a straight run from the cyclone about 20' away.

[James Gunning]

George,

Not seeing your saw, I couldn't comment exactly. However it sounds like you could just hook up the undertable 4" port and the overarm 4" port to a common manifold feeding the 6" connection to the cyclone. two 4" pipes will roughly equal the cross section of the 6" pipe. 12.56 Sq. In X 2. vs. 28.27 sq. in.

Some have even put blast gates in each 4" hose to adjust the amount of air flowing through.

Clearvue has a ready made product for just such a situation: http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/11-supporting-products

[Jim Andrew]

I have a 3hp cyclone with 6" piping, and have found if you have a 15" planer, you don't need to change the planer to 6". The planer is well designed for dust collection, and 4" works fine. I have redone the outlets on my sanders to switch to 6", and my unisaw also. The jointer has a 5" connection, and it works fine as well. Some machines are designed well for catching the chips, others not so well.

[Larry Frank]

These thread are always interesting. They are long on guesses and short on data.

When will some people actually do good measurements and back up their theory and general info with data. There are so many people reporting how great their dust collectors work without any data like the basics of cfm and static pressure. We could help a lot of people make better choices with actual measurements about how modifications effect the cfm and static pressure.

[Randall J Cox]

I run a 1.75 hp powermatic DC with an Onieda SDD, large sub micron Wynn filter and 5" metal piping. I have modified most large unit dust pickups to 5" at the machine (8" jointer, 15" planer, 3hp table saw, 12" miter saw). I had to go down to 4" at my 18" band saw, 12" sanding disc and 6x48 belt sander due to space limitations. I have a small shop so the runs aren't long. It all seems to work well. It was a real hassle getting 5" pickups at each of the larger machines. Lots of head scratching and fabricating, but happy with results. I will say that the whole dust collection effort took lots more time, work and $$ than I thought it would. Randy

[John K Jordan]

These thread are always interesting. They are long on guesses and short on data.

When will some people actually do good measurements and back up their theory and general info with data. There are so many people reporting how great their dust collectors work without any data like the basics of cfm and static pressure. We could help a lot of people make better choices with actual measurements about how modifications effect the cfm and static pressure.

Larry, you make a good point. You ask when some people will do good measurements - probably never.

I suspect many people don't report actual measurements because they don't have actual measurements. Some may not have the time. Some may not know how to make the measurements.

Here's an idea for you - start a new thread with the title of "How to make DC measurements" or something and provide a tutorial in simple language on how to measure static pressure and CFM. Describe what can be bought and what can be made and any tradeoffs. Provide both laboratory and on-the-cheap solutions. Photos or diagrams would help. All basic instruction needed for taking useful data should be in the text but links to supporting information and references would be nice. (Just stating "read Pentz" may not be useful.) This could be a good place to describe particulate air quality instruments as well, according to some the ultimate indicator of DC effectiveness. How you implemented these things in your own shop would bring it all home.

People with new installations could be given a link to your thread. This effort could change future threads from interesting to useful.

JKJ

[Larry Frank]

John....the problem with your suggestion is that I have already done what you have suggested. Please take a look at the threads that I have started. I have not linked to them because I have problems getting links to work.

Unfortunately, one of the threads get messed up due to someone editing it. I have posted quite a few times to present my test data and methods. The same info is presented in a blog on another forum. The info is there if people want it.

[James Gunning]

Larry,

I agree with you, and John. We do need to have more solid data. However, as John noted, there are many reasons we don't. In my case, I'm not a trained engineer, only a career pilot with a solid understanding of aerodynamics. Even then, airflow in a woodshop doesn't always relate exactly. What I have spoken about in this forum I have either learned empirically by doing, or relying on information I trust, such as from Bill Pentz. I did buy an inexpensive anemometer so I can do comparative airflow measurements, but that's about the limit of what I intend to spend on instrumentation. Being retired, my funds go to things I consider more important related to my hobbies. My other issue at the moment is a garage that since last spring has been filled with my wifes unneeded "stuff", thus preventing me from even getting at most of my tools to work or take measurements.

I searched to find your previous posts regarding measurement and did find some. I didn't have the time to do that long and detailed a search. That may often be the problem on SMC. Since you have over 1600 posts, it takes a long time to wade through, and many may give up before they find what they need.

I have referenced and linked some of my previous posts with 100% reliability so far. Knock on wood. How could someone else edit your posts? I didn't think that was possible other than maybe the moderator.

It appears you have the training and background (and the instruments) to provide some solid data for the rest of us to use. However, do you have the time and will to do it? You're obviously not obligated to do so. Considering how many times the same questions get asked over and over again about dust collection, we really need an article or at least a sticky that answers those basic questions. The real first question all want answered is how much will it cost? If money (and space in many cases) were not involved, we could all start with a Clearvue, or an Oneida V-5000 and 6" or larger ducting, since that's really what works the best. The great majority just want to know where to start and what to do with the small DC they bought and found lacking. Since I went through all the usual steps and found a workable solution without spending the Clearvue/V-5000 money, I've been posting those results.

If you do want to do some kind of a tutorial on DC measurements, I would be glad to participate. I know you have a V-5000. My small DC could be an example of what you can do with a small blower and cyclone.

[Larry Frank]

You can find them by looking for my started threads. All the information is in my posts and if you want to know the other website where they are posted send me a message.

You are correct that members can not edit someone's post......

[John K Jordan]

If you do want to do some kind of a tutorial on DC measurements, I would be glad to participate. I know you have a V-5000. My small DC could be an example of what you can do with a small blower and cyclone.

I'd be glad to participate as well, as time allows. Before I built my shop I studied all that Pentz wrote and bought the 5hp ClearVue which works well, but the only data I collect is with the Dylos air quality monitor - if it shows clean air, I'm happy. It certainly confirms that I need my respirator off when free sanding away from any dust pickups.

Although I know the benefits of measuring CFM and static pressure, I have no incentive to do that except where it might help others. Creating a clear, simplified but complete set of instructions of how to monitor at low cost and putting the instructions in one place where they can be easily linked to seems like a great step towards education.

I admit to not understanding problems with embedding links in messages. For the link I tried just now, I selected the characters in the address bar on Firefox (works with IE and iPad also) and used cut and paste: pressed Ctrl-C, then moved to the message body and pressed Ctrl-V.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...12#post2662712

BTW, if it makes a difference, I use the simple editor on SMC (Settings/General Settings/Standard Editor) since in my experience the enhanced editor has caused me a variety of problems. I always preview and test my links and images before posting.

JKJ

[Larry Frank]

I posted the same information here and on the LJ website (user name RedOak49). As I mentioned the posts here got scrambled. The posts on both sites show how I did the testing and the instruments used. While I appreciate people wanting instructions, there is more than enough information in the posts to do your own testing and I am not going to repost the information.

The information is not in a step by step format but is very clear with diagrams. If you have specific questions , send me a message.