New (old backsaw) Wheeler, Madden, & Bakewell 14"

[joel cervera]

Just picked this up on the auction site. The auction had poor quality pics but I took a chance with a low bid and got it for $30 plus shipping.

Seems to be 1850 to 1860. Before Wheeler madden and Clemsen.

Brass backed saw with a plate that is straight as an arrow. Sawplate is in great condition. The handle has some issues tho. its very firmly attached to the the plate. Nuts are good and tight.

The chamfer on the front side of the handle is broken off and the backside chamfer has a hairline crack in it.

The Lambs tongue also has a hairline crack clean thru it. But its solid and doesn't move.

I will shoot thin Cyanoacrylate into the cracks with an extra fine syringe. that should stabilize them and they'll be good to go after that.

the missing chamfer.. I haven't decided if I want to glue on a matching piece of wood here and on the top horn and make a repair or if I should just leave things be.

What would you guys do there? Also is this a beech handle, in case if repairs are made?

Also the handle finish could use some attention. Can't tell if the finish on here is original or not. looks kinda thick an goopy in spots. I tend to like a handle with a natural finish and feel to it.

I think this one will make a good user when alls said and done.

It a fine old American made saw..

[Pete Taran]

That saw is very early. Josiah Bakewell started making saws in 1849. I'd proceed with caution on the repairs, nothing you do is going to make a 170 year old saw new again. There is a product I like called Kramers Antique Restorer. I clean off the grunge on the handle with 0000 steel wool and mineral spirits and once it's dried apply a liberal coat of the restorer. It's not a real finish, but it soaks in an protects the areas that have no finish and fixes dried out areas. It does nothing to harm any remaining existing finish and is a minimalist approach to restoration which I always advocate on very early saws like yours.

[lowell holmes]

If it were my saw, I would do as I have with my old saws. Make a new handle to enjoy, but keep the old handle so you don't lose the history of the saw.
If I ever decide to sell one of my saws, both handles will go with it and the new owner will be able to make his own choice.
I made my handles out of curly maple.

[Pete Taran]

Joel,

It's your saw and you can do with it as you wish. However, if you are interested in preserving the history on an early, 170 year old saw, I would NOT follow Lowell's advice. The split nuts on that saw have very slender shanks. If you do manage to get them off in one piece, you will never reassemble it in one piece. These nuts were not made to remove and put back together. They were tightened and drawfiled. As I look at your saw, I can't even see a slot in one of the nuts. For what it's worth.

PS Josiah Bakewell died in 1861, so your saw is no younger than that!

[joel cervera]

Joel,

It's your saw and you can do with it as you wish. However, if you are interested in preserving the history on an early, 170 year old saw, I would NOT follow Lowell's advice. The split nuts on that saw have very slender shanks. If you do manage to get them off in one piece, you will never reassemble it in one piece. These nuts were not made to remove and put back together. They were tightened and drawfiled. As I look at your saw, I can't even see a slot in one of the nuts. For what it's worth.


PS Josiah Bakewell died in 1861, so your saw is no younger than that!

No worries Pete.

I don't Plan on taking the handle off. i'm in full agreement with you on NOT Removing these split nuts. They are on there nice and tight. the handle is solid to the plate/spline . And you are correct about the label screw. it has only one groove vs two like a split nut. I'm not fooling with any of it.

With respect to the finish. There are some paint splatters and goop on it in a few places. I always planned to tread as lightly as possible . I'll try to get the gunk of with the least means necessary and proceed cautiously.

With respect to the broken cheek and horn. I was unsure how best to proceed. There is a tiny bit of play/wiggle between handle an plate/spine ( if you hold the handle and rotate the blade in the same orientation as a rudder on a boat) that might be due to the missing chamfer where the spine and the handle meet.. I guess I can try to use it as it and see if it does the job... if I do make a repair at some point ( because the saw needs it to be fully functional).. is this a beech handle? I can surely mix up aniline die to match he existing color of the handle( in the event).

Thanks to all for your suggestions

Joel

[Pete Taran]

Joel,

For the paint spallers, just a single edged razor blade or utility knife with a new blade to scratch them off. Think surgery not using a card scraper.

I think you are on the right track with respect to the repair. If you think it needs it, I'd opt for something reversible like a thin shim glued to a piece of wood that can be removed. I doubt it will need any of that though. The pressure in the cut is along the line of force applied which fortunately behind the handle. Said another way, not a lot of racking going on. If you need to though, you can fit a shim, I would opt for something reversible though, not glued permanent.

All the Wheeler saws I own are beech, but if you clean up the handle like I mentioned, you should be able to see ray flecks if that is the case. Lots of Beech in upstate NY. You can get an overview of saw rehab in the library section of my website.

Pete

[Ron Bontz]

You sir, are a wealth of information. I may start referring to you as encyclopedic Pete.

[joel cervera]

After stabilizing any hairline cracks...The handle feels great and ready to work.

Here is the saw after a bit of cleaning and 1 coat 50/50 linseed oil and mineral spirits that I let soak in for a few minutes then wiped off. I'll put a thin coat of shellac on it, after the BLO dries. then once its cured will apply some wax. Spent all of 5 minutes cleaning the blade. And about 5 to 10 on the brass. I am really pleased with it, and think it is quite a beautiful tool.. The Saw looks its age. But it also now looks well cared for. Will send it out for its first sharpening and then will freshen it up myself from then on.

This is gonna be a pleasure to use. And it will be a pleasure to look at in the tool rack, too..

[Stewie Simpson]

Joel; all good news with the backsaw, but my particular interest is on learning more about that wooden bench plane you have in the background.

Stewie;

[joel cervera]

Hey Stewie,

I posted About it in this thread.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...age2&p=2623449

Haven't updated the thread as I have been picking away at rehabbing the fore.. Its cleaned and waxed. I've glued in the handle ( with hide glue) I also started flattening the back of blade a bit.. but will finish that up next time i grab it to work on it.

[Stewie Simpson]

Thanks Joel.

[joel cervera]

<p>
Hey All . A while back I started this thread about this early american saw. Still havent sharpened it but im getting around to tidying some of my resto projects that have been sitting around. I was having 2nd thoughs about using this saw. Wondering if its the kind of thing that should be preserved or not. At 14 inches it would serve well in my small till of backsaws but when your talking about an American saw from 1850 to 1860...? I&#39;m not a collector and use all the tools I own. But just figured I might check in with some you guys who are more knowledgable about a saw of his vintage. I havent seen many Bakewell saws... certainly not as many as the Wheeler, Madden, and Clemson&#39;s. thx.</p>
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