New to spray finishing / End grain

[Ryan Tea]

Hello,

As the title says, I am new into spray finishing and was looking for a little insight. I ended up purchasing the Fuji 2203G Semi-Pro2 as I do not do that many projects a year. I have read Jeff Jewitt's book as well as taken a couple classes, but I still have very limited knowledge. My gun comes with the 1.3mm aircap set and 400cc stainless cup.

- Is there a recommended procedure for finishing something like an end grain butcher block? Sanding sealer and then water based topcoat?

- Cutting recommendations from experience? Jeff recommended at most 10% for water based with distilled water.

- Recommended finishes for new guys? General finishes? Always water based?

- Plastic compatible cups instead of the stainless steel?

Sorry for all the questions. I am going to keep reading through the forums as well as articles I can find. Jeff's book was really good, but I am always looking for more.

Thanks!

[Prashun Patel]

1. I would not finish a cutting board with this. I'd use pure oil and wax. Perhaps a sealing coat of something, but I wouldn't bother spraying - and definitely not to a film.
2. Thinning depends on the top coat. I have the Fuji Semipro2 and find that the stock nozzle sprays Enduro Clear Poly without thinning at all. But that's only one product.
3. I use the steel cup. Waterbased top coats are nice because you can wash them with soap and water in a sink (after wiping out the cup and disposing as much as possible into the trash) and they restore to relatively new condition.

[Ryan Tea]

Prashun,

Thank you for the reply. I have finished boards before with the oil/wax and though they have turned out well, I have had the Amish spray finish several and they turned out amazing. They were more so used as serving dishes than actual chopping on.

And thanks for the thinning advice. I really had no clue what the Semi-Pro2 could handle. I have recently read about that General Finishes Enduro. Do you usually use sanding sealer as a base before you apply that?

Thanks.

[Andy Giddings]

Agree with Prashun's comments. If you want to use the plastic cup (I think you mean the 3M system?) there are a couple of links under the FAQ on the Fuji website. Finishes for anyone without an explosion proof setup should be restricted to WB unless you like taking risks or are spraying outdoors. GF is a good brand but there are others. Do a search in the finishing forum related to spraying and you'll get the brands that most recommend. Re Jeff Jewitt's book - do you mean the one on Spray Finishing or ....?

[Ryan Tea]

Andy, thank you for the advice. I did mean the 3M cups, and wanted to see how everyone liked them from personal experience. The Jeff Jewitt book that I read was on Spray Finishing. It was pretty good for the absolute beginner and I think I pulled a lot of valuable information from it. Now it is time to just give it a try.

[Alan Lightstone]

I've just started using the 3M PPM system on my Fuji gun. Plusses and minuses. Had a couple of "this was no boating accident" moments with not tight seals, or forgetting to put the needle and air cap on the gun (amazing how quickly it empties over everything.) Also had limited success in storing finishes in the cups. But I also see the advantages.

Agree with everyone's comments about just using oil and beeswax for the cutting boards. Simple, works, and looks great.

I bought a variety of sized tips/aircaps for my Fuji gun, so I usually change tips instead of thinning, but with some finishes thinning is a must.

I'll leave others to give you water-based advice. I just don't use them.

To be fair, I was spraying spar varnish, so not the easiest or cleanest stuff to spray. Lacquer will likely be far easier for me with the 3M, as I have built an explosion proof booth.

Jeff Jewitt's book is quite good. I can also VERY highly recommend Charles Neil's finishing course at his workshop. Really tremendously improved my technique after a few days with him. Plus he's a great guy.

[John TenEyck]

I use 3M PPS cups on my air assisted HVLP gun and am a real fan. Being able to spray at any angle, including upside down, is a huge advantage over traditional cups/guns. The pressure assist feature gives finer atomization through a given nozzle size and that means a more uniform finish.

Like others have said, I would not put a film finish on a cutting board. For a serving board, however, go ahead, why not.

I use mostly GF's waterborne products. Of the ones I've used, EnduroVar has the highest chemical durability. In full disclosure, I have not used their Conversion Varnish, and I would expect it to be even more durable. It should be for the price. EnduroVar brushes beautifully, but it does not spray that easily unless you have a pressurized cup or thin it. I prefer not to thin finishes so I struggled to avoid orange peel until I got my pressure assisted gun. Now that I can use a smaller needle it sprays great. Enduro Clear Poly sprays beautifully, has higher mechanical abrasion resistance than EnduroVar, and is almost as good with respect to chemical durability. It's also dead clear, whereas EnduroVar has a slight amber tint and supposedly continues to amber over time, although I haven't seen it happen in the 5 years I've been using it. GF's High Performance is pretty much the same as Enduro Clear Poly with how it looks and sprays. It also has a very good UV stabilizer package that resists yellowing for many years. I've seen none in 7 years. However, it has poor chemical durability so I wouldn't use it for any application where it would see food or chemical exposure - definitely not for a kitchen table.

John

[Ryan Tea]

I have actually talked to Charles Neil before in regards to his conditioner. He could not have been nicer in responding and giving me invaluable information to help me in finishing a project.

Just to be clear, I completely understand the reasoning for the oil/wax on boards or butcher blocks that will be cut on. I was just curious how one would seal the end grain by spraying if they were going to use it as a serving board only. I am assuming sanding sealer or something similar? I just know how much thick end grain can soak up and was wondering if anyone sprayed something like that before.

Thank you all again for all the comments from experience. How about this for a question.....Do you always use sanding sealer under your Enduro?

[Andy Giddings]

Never used sanding sealer under Enduro. The only time I ever use a sealer (normally sprayed shellac) is over a dye stained piece to prevent the dye being pulled by the WB top coat.

For the end grain, I would try some scraps brushing on your selected finish. Even if the grain is porous, eventually the finish will saturate and form a film on top of the end grain - I suspect you'll just need more coats

[Marty Schlosser]

Hey, John,

I'm intrigued by your "air assisted HVLP gun". Are you talking about a conversion gun, or perhaps an air-assisted airless gun? To help me understand what system you're talking about, could you please tell me what company and what model are you talking of?

I use 3M PPS cups on my air assisted HVLP gun and am a real fan.
John

[Prashun Patel]

If you are just using this as a serving board, I also concur that a film finish is fine. Between you and me, it's a lot of work to bust out the sprayer for a cutting board, but...

I usually treat end grain (including cutting boards) by sanding it up to 600 grit. Then I apply the first coat with a brush or rag, and just keep rubbing it in and and reapplying for several minutes. Then wipe off any excess. When dry, re-sand with 600 grit and finish as per normal.

[Scott Brader]

I use the Howard's Butcher Block Conditioner as the only finish on butcher blocks/cutting boards. They look beautiful and seem to be very well protected. I do have to reapply periodically, but it only takes a few minutes to do all of my wife's cutting boards (I think she secretly hoards them...). I put it on liberally and then buff it out when the board has taken as much as it can.

Scott

[Rob Young]

Hey, John,

I'm intrigued by your "air assisted HVLP gun". Are you talking about a conversion gun, or perhaps an air-assisted airless gun? To help me understand what system you're talking about, could you please tell me what company and what model are you talking of?

I believe he is referring to an HVLP design that pressurizes the cup. Either a cup-under or cup-over design can have a small line taken from the main pressure cavity of the gun and used to pressurize the cup. Helps to PUSH the material out of the cup thus allowing a higher viscosity material with a smaller N/N set (finer atomization) to be used.

[Rob Young]

Hello,

As the title says, I am new into spray finishing and was looking for a little insight. I ended up purchasing the Fuji 2203G Semi-Pro2 as I do not do that many projects a year. I have read Jeff Jewitt's book as well as taken a couple classes, but I still have very limited knowledge. My gun comes with the 1.3mm aircap set and 400cc stainless cup.

- Is there a recommended procedure for finishing something like an end grain butcher block? Sanding sealer and then water based topcoat?

- Cutting recommendations from experience? Jeff recommended at most 10% for water based with distilled water.

- Recommended finishes for new guys? General finishes? Always water based?

- Plastic compatible cups instead of the stainless steel?

Sorry for all the questions. I am going to keep reading through the forums as well as articles I can find. Jeff's book was really good, but I am always looking for more.

Thanks!

EnduroVar was mentioned as a possible coating for the end-grain (cutting) serving boards and questions asked about sanding sealers. EnduroVar can act as its own sealer if you dust on a coat first. Most "modern" finishes can act as their own sanding sealer if you apply a light coat, allow it sufficient time to cure and use stearated sand paper. In a production environment, this is not as efficient as you have to wait 48hr+ sometimes. Sanding sealers cure quickly and include stearates to minimize corning of the paper. Your call.

Don't just thin a finish because somebody told you to. Get your hands on a #4 Ford cup and test the viscosity of the finish, Amazon for $10. Every manufacturer of HVLP systems I looked at included a chart indicating range of times from the viscosity cup to range of needle/nozzle set to use. Do that first before thinning. And each manufacturer of finish should have, somewhere, in their documentation upper limits for thinning. Distilled water is a good idea. That said, if you do need to thin after testing viscosity, Jeff's advice and methods work pretty well. Oh, and sometimes the chart numbers are for a Zahn cup or other methods. There are conversion tables/formulas available.

Shellac sprays like a dream. Make your own or buy the Zinsser stuff in the cans. SealCoat is dewaxed, the other two Zinsser offerings aren't. Making your own is easy and in the long run cheaper as you can make up only what you need per job as well as monkey with colors by using dyes.

Zinsser BIN primer (shellac based) sprays and preps great. Suitable for indoor work.

Latex-Acrylic or Acrylic-Latex paints spray well. General Finishes Milk Paint is an acrylic (100%?) that sprays very well. But also premium priced. Rustoleum branded outdoor acrylic-latex have sprayed well for me but I haven't examined them closely after the chairs have lived on the deck over winter.

Forgetting the exact name, but it was a generic acrylic-latex outdoor primer from Ace Hardware that I had tinted gray that also sprayed very well. Pretty much just added Floetrol as it was mid-summer while spraying. Floetrol acts as a retarder and allows the drops to coalesce before drying, thus giving a smoother and better bonded finish.

In short, other than shellac, spray waterborne. Easier cleanup, generally safer and durable enough for most applications.

My gun is a cup-under design with a pressurized cup. I use HVLP cup liner bags to speed cleanup. Outside of my cup is a bit of a mess, but the inside is clean...

Speaking of cleaning, waterborne is easier to cleanup the gun. Keep a jug of household sudsy ammonia around too. That stuff works wonders removing shellac and acrylic.

[Ryan Tea]

I wanted to thank everyone again for all of the information. I really appreciate all of the insight to help me get started. In one of the classes I took we sprayed two coats of sanding sealer sanding with 320 in between each coat. We then used a Lacquer as the top coat (Two coats) on a small cherry coffee table. I was really happy with the results.

As I have previously said, I read a lot about the Endurovar and think that will be my choice when I first start. I am just waiting for this weather to break a little (East Coast) and then set up my garage knock down spray booth.

Rob, I did pick up a Ford #4 as well as paper cup strainers, gravity cup stand, and wet mill gauge. I really liked how Jeff gave the example of spraying a piece of cardboard and then checking it with a wet mill gauge. To me this seemed like a no-brainer to ensure I was getting the proper spray. I have just started looking into the liner bags to save me a little mess. I want to try and keep this as clean as possible as I know I am going to be crazy cleaning the gun after each use. Just as I do with all my other tools.

So it looks like for now I will stick with the oil/wax for my end grain stuff and wait to spray my Enduro on my next project when the weather gets a littler nicer!