Fluorescent lighting questions

[Christopher Kochan]

I've read everything I can find on this and a few other woodworking boards on fluorescent lighting, and I'm about to pull the trigger on improving the lighting in my garage/shop.

What I have:
- 18x18 ft area that needs to be lit.
- 16 foot ceiling height - finished, and painted with off-white paint.
- Currently 1 (one) incadecent fixture, with a compact fluorescent bulb in it.
- Terrible lighting - my eyes get tired so fast out there in the evenings, especially if I try to read -anything-
- I do have one magnetic base task light with a 23 watt daylight compact fluorescent bulb in it. Nice task lighting, but a frustrating to always be moving it around, and not effective for anything more than working at a single tool.

What I need:
- Better general lighting - cheap but functional.

Questions:
1) Does anyone have the FWW article that could look up with my specs, how many 32w T8s I'd need? It's no longer up for download on the FWW site as far as I can tell.

2) I don't like to be cheap, but I'd rather not spend a lot as I'm going to be moving in a few years. My plan is to run multiple cheap t8 fixtures 4 ft 2 bulb (Walmart ones seem to have a decent rep for what they are.) - 6 perhaps? Hang them close to the ceiling as to not be obtrusive, and plug them all into a power strip that will plug into a replacement incadecent fixture that has a grounded outlet on it. Price: $100 with 5000k or 6500k 86 CRI bulbs.

Or, go with 8ft 4 bulb fixtures, 3 would be about $200 with bulbs and cut down extension cords to wire them in. Downside - trying to manipulate those fiixtures to a 16ft height by myself without dying in the process (1 12ft step ladder). I do NOT relish the idea of hardwiring on that ceiling, so I'm trying to KISS. Advantage - cleaner install (flush and less cords running around)

4ft 4 bulb fixtures - 4 of them, 1 in each quadrant, again cleanest install, 33% more light, about $250-300 with bulbs, and a tough time lugging those things up to the ceiling to mount.

I don't think I'd be able to get friends to help, as no one else owns a tall step and it's not worth it to hire an electrician. So right now the first option seems the best, though ugliest (it's in my -garage- though), and easy to pull down in a few years when I move, if the new buyer has any grief with it. Oh, and I should be able to easily sink eye bolts into the ceiling and hang the lights safely by myself.

Anything I'm missing? I took a wild guess at the number of bulbs needed to get adequate lighting at 50-100 foot candles (12 bulbs at 2800 lumens per bulb over 324 sq feet, but no idea how to factor in the height).

Thanks for putting up with the rambling, as well as your input!

Best,
Christopher

[Cecil Arnold]

FWIW, I think you could get by with three 8' 2 bulb fixtures spaced across the celing with some fill in task lighting. Compaired to what you currently have it would be a new day.

[Allen Bookout]

Christopher,

I have a very good article in pdf form on my computer and if you want it I will try to send it to you as an attachment. It is "Lighting For The Workshop" by Jack L. Lindsey from Fine Woodworking. I do not know if this is the one that you want or not. If so click on my name and send me an e-mail and I will try to get it to you.

I have a 24 by 24 garage and installed four eight foot fixtures, four 48 inch bulbs per fixture, on one end. It is just like being outside without the glare. It gives pretty good light on the other end also. My height is only 10 feet though. I used t8 daylight bulbs and I think that that is why it seems to make so much more light than I expected.

I think that you would have very good light with your 16 by 16 with the four eight footers. Two more would really do the job.

The ones that I used were from Home Depot and I do not remember what they cost but they are great. They are instantly on when I turn on the switch. They were easy to put up as I installed the fictures first and then installed the ballast which is most of the weight.

Your post does not show where you live, but if you are around Southwest Florida let me know and I will help you put them up.

Allen

[David Klug]

Christopher, I'll tell you what I did. Some of it you might be able to use. I was fortunate because my daughter was working at a store that was doing a remodel and they were throwing 4 bulb fixtures away so I got 4 of them. When I wired the garage I put outlets on the trusses, so when I got the lights I just drove a nail in the trusses and put some #9 wire on the end of the fixtures and hung the up that way and plugged them in the outlets. Should I ever move, after 20 years I hope not, if I want to I can take them down and move them with me. I only use 3 of them most of the time because I have cupboards and other things stored in the rest of the garage. I also have a 2 bulb fixture that was here when I moved here so most of my work area is well lighted.

DK



DK

[Bernie Weishapl]

I have did the same thing as Allen. I have a 12 X 20 shop. I have 3 8 ft fixtures with the small 32 watt. There is 4 bulbs per fixture. I used the daylight bulbs and boy what a difference that made in the shop. I also got mine from HD. Before I had the 4 ft. cheapies from walmart hanging all over the shop. I kept one of the better ones of the cheapies and put daylight bulbs in it and left it hanging over the bench at one end of my shop. You would not believe the difference. I would say that with 4 fixtures with the daylight bulbs would do for your shop.

[Christopher Kochan]

Thanks for your input so far guys. It's amazing that in such a short amount of time I can get this much input, and you all seem to be saying the same thing. That helps keep the frustration level down.

Oh, and Allen, I tried to e-mail you, but was unsuccessful. Your profile doesn't allow e-mailing you.

Oh, and would you guys hard wire (how would YOU wire into an existing light fixture, and would you use NM with/without conduit?), or wire plugs into the lights and just plug them in?

Best,
Christopher

[Allen Bookout]

Sorry about that!!! I think that I fixed it where that I can now receive e-mails. It may be tomorrow before I can reply.

I just tested it and it works.

Allen

[Randy Meijer]

8' bulbs are a real pain to deal with. You can't just stick a package of them in the trunk of the car!! Nor can you run down to the local Wal-Mart and pick up a couple in an emergency. If you can deal with the headaches, go for it; but, otherwise, staying with 4' tubes might be prudent??

[Chris Giles]

Christopher,
Be careful to check the terms of your lease if you hard wire the lights. Most commercial leases specify that any alterations or improvements to the space become the property of the building owner, and cannot be removed when you move. When I used to lease space, I always had outlets hardwired, but used plugs on the lights, and chains with S-hooks to mount them so their was no question they were going with me when I moved. I use 8', 2-bulb fixtures (24 of them) and can get 75 watt replacement bulbs at Home Depot, or a bulk box from Grainger if I'm feeling particularly organized.

[John Bailey]

Christopher,

I used to have a 24x26 garage. I often did projects, including building an 8 ft. dingy for my sailboat. I had four 8 ft. bulbs in the garage. They were electronic balasts for less noise and start-up in cold weather. It often gets -25 F. where I live and the garage was not heated. I felt the lighting was pretty good overall, however, if you had a bench against a wall you needed task lighting because the main lights were behind you and cast a shadow.

Randy's right about dealing with 8' bulbs. They are difficult. I even have broken them because I put them in the back of the pick-up. I never had a problem with them in a car, other than getting them in.

In your situation, I would buy plug-in fixtures and take them with you. I wouldn't attempt to hang them 16' up though. Go up and hang some chain and hang the fixture from the chain, unless, of course, you need the height because you build tall projects.

Personally, I would spend the extra money on the electronic ballasts and the better bulbs. I've had trouble with the magnetic ballasts and cheap bulbs. The magnetic ballasts are noisy and I was constantly changing bulbs. I only replaced two bulbs in my garage in 10 years.

Hope this helps and we'll be looking forward to seeing the results with some pictures.

John

[Dan Forman]

You might want to rethink the t-8's. I find running notheing but daylight bulbs to be rather harsh and producing a cold light (lots of blue spectrum) If you are painting or staining, you may not like the results when you get into incandscent lighting, where most projects end up.

For a more balanced setup, I use the old standard shop fixtures, but mix one daylihgt or cool designer high output bulb with one warm high output bulb in each fixture. The mix ends up providing a much more balanced spectrum of light, and at close the output of t8's and with less outlay. Both bulbs are in the 32to 3400 lumen range, about half again what standard bulbs output.

This is the same mix I use when doing oil painting on canvas, and have found it the best solutioh for most natural color emphasis.

Just another thought to consider, from an artists perspective.

Dan

[Christopher Kochan]

Thanks guys. Yes, if I choose the 8' fixtures, I'll pick the type with 4 4 foot bulbs. There doesn't seem to be quite the variety of 8' bulbs here, though I haven't checked with a electrical supply house.

Regarding the 16' ceilings, I need to hang them high. The entrance to the house through the garage is up a 7' flight of stairs, and so it would be obtrusive to have lights hanging a long way down from the ceiling. Also, I have a ton of ELFA shelving on one wall, all the way to the ceiling, acting as storage for items for the house. I'd have no way to set up my tall step ladder if I had lights hanging everywhere.

Oh, and this is a personal residence, not a commercial area. If, in about 4 years when it comes time to move, I desire to take the lights with me, plug ins would certainly be easier.

Dan, yes I have thought a lot about the warm vs cool light issues. As long as I can find high CRI bulbs, I may consider mixing 5000k or 6500ks with warmer lights, like 3500ks.

You've given me a lot to think about.

If you were to hard wire, would you leave the romex exposed on the ceiling, or run conduit? I think running it exposed on a finished ceiling is to code, but I'd have to check with an inspector.

Christopher

[Jim O'Dell]

Chris, i have a copy of the Lindsey article in front of me. I just down loaded it about 3 weeks ago, but I remember having lots of trouble finding it, even searching by author's name.
A 20 X 20 foot shop to 100'c shows to need 8-8' 60 watt energy saving fixtures, 7-8' full wattage 75 watt fixtures, and 6-8' high output 110 watt fixtures.
My shop is 20 X 24, and the ceiling joists are at 24", which gives me 10 "bays" for lights. I plan to use the 93 CRI T8 bulbs, and use a mixture of the 8' 4 bulb units and the 4' 2 bulb units from HD. I have found an online store for the bulbs, case of 25 for 97.50 plus shipping, which with the shipping factored in is only about 60 cents more per bulb than the 2 packs of lesser bulbs at HD. I will be stepping into my lighting slowly, and will probably get the 8 footers first, then go back with the 4 footers. My ceilings are 7'9". With your ceiling heights, you might look at using the lights that are made for that purpose. The article doesn't talk much about ceiling heights, unfortunately. One little paragraph about distance from light to work surface. Would 2 or 3 of the metal halide fixtures work for your situation?
I'm trying to figure out how to build reflectors for the strip fluorescents now. Funny how none of the T8's come with reflectors! I'm going to recess mine into the ceiling joists to save headroom and am designing a reflector and mounting system to work. Let us know what you decide to go with. Jim

edit: I should have mentioned that when completed, I'll have 6-4' two bulb units in adition to the 4-8 footers. If I find that the 4 footers don't work well, I'll move 2 of them to the finishing room where I plan to have 4 anyway, and replace with 2 more 8 footers.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Christopher I made mine with plugin's. It makes it a lot easier to if you want to move them around. I made a couple of move to get what I wanted for light. I moved a couple of them to get rid of shadows. Make sure you get electronic ballasts. They work in cold and come on immediately. They also make less noise. Right now I used all daylight bulbs but like Dan I am going to experiment with the lighting a little. I think you are on the right track and have lots of info to work with.

[Jeff Fritzson]

Chris,

You can google a page using the following words - GE lighting Layout Estimator - and it can share with you some great information. When I re-did the lighting in my 22 x 22 garage I ended up with 6 - 8' fixtures each with 4 bulbs using a high CRI and it is truly like daylight in my shop.

Now I am in my mid forties and wanted the high foot candles at table height. There are no shadows and I can see any of my blades spin very well. You can probably get by with less if you are younger and great eyesight but based on the research I did and the amount of light I wanted it was right on the nose. I love the light in my shop.

Jeff