Hand Saw Suggestions

[Eric Sarno]

Hi everyone,

I am trying to outfit myself with some good hand tools. I spent a while restoring some old USA made woodworking machines, and while useful, I think I am really kind of enjoying hand tools more! (I guess I should have tried those first).

I would like to start making furniture for my house, from bed frames to tables to desks and of course all manner of boxes, etc. For finer / smaller work I feel good about my options, it seems Lee Valey, Lie Nielsen & many others make saws for dovetails (I have the Lie Nielsen dovetail saw), tenons and such.

I'd like to find a nice saw for cutting bigger stock, especially for ripping as I have no good option for that right now. While I'm at it a crosscut filed saw would be good too! The only hesitation I have about the Lie Nielsen is that the plate is thin and for someone undeveloped at sawing I'd run a higher likelihood of bending it.

The only caveat right now is I'm not looking to search for & restore an old saw at bargain bin prices. At this stage I'd like something good that I can sharpen & maintain. I'd like to get something fairly soon but I can't find many options new, and am at a loss for reputable sellers for restored vintage handsaws.

Any suggestions you have are much appreciated! Thank you

[Phil Mueller]

Highly recommend Pete Taran at vintagesaws.com He's a member here at SMC. Send him a PM or contact him through his website.

[Paul Sidener]

Good vintage saws are not that hard to find. They can cost more sometimes. My full size crosscut saw D-15 Victory saw, and rip saw is a D12. Both are good users. I had to clean up the D-15 a little, but it was no big deal. I have a pair of shorter saws that were made by Wenzloff & Sons. I lucked out getting the two Wenzloff saws, they can be very difficult to get.

One thing to remember about the Lie Nielsen saws, is they are shorter saws. The thin blades will seem thicker, on shorter blades. I have Lie Nielsen back saws. I was worried about the blade thickness, when I bought them. After having them for some years, I wouldn't worry about it. You get use to it, fairly quick.

[lowell holmes]

There are video's online regarding restoring old handsaws. Popular Woodworking have some of them. Look for a Ron Herman video.

I learned to sharpen, repair. and use handsaws from these video's. I recently filed the tooth line smooth on an 8 point crosscut saw, re-tooth, and sharpen the saw.
After I set the teeth, the saw cuts like new with no vices. After putting a new handle on it, it is like a new saw.

You might want to explore this approach. If you don't want to go to this approach, look for a bit better saw that only needs sharpening and setting. If you don't want to buy a saw set, you can set teeth with a screw driver. Google "Hammer set saw teeth"

[Dan Sink]

If you don't want to find, restore and sharpen your own vintage saw, there is a guy that restores and sells saws on eBay that I had a good experience with and he seems pretty popular. I have a D-8 that he did and I love it. But I bought mine years ago when he didn't have such a large following. His saws have gotten considerably more expensive since then as his eBay following has grown. But its worth checking him out. He typically has a couple of saw available, but it appears right now he doesn't. I'd give it a week and he'll probably have one or two up for auction. His eBay seller name is azmica90405.

[Bill McNiel]

Lowell and Dan have both given you solid advice, with the possible exception of setting the teeth with a screwdriver. Search for "handsaws" here and you will find a plethora of advice on makers, sizes and types of handsaws.

[lowell holmes]

Lowell and Dan have both given you solid advice, with the possible exception of setting the teeth with a screwdriver. Search for "handsaws" here and you will find a plethora of advice on makers, sizes and types of handsaws.

Frank Klauz talks about setting teeth with a screwdriver. I did not make that up.
http://woodlooking.blogspot.com/2010...nk-klausz.html

[Pete Taran]

I guess you could use a dull finishing nail and a rock from the drive way as well. I know Frank personally, and while he may have said this at one point, I can assure you having visited his shop, he uses a saw set just like the rest of us.

[lowell holmes]

Pete,
I've set teeth on a fine tooth saw with a screwdriver. Don't ridicule it, it works. I would never set an eight point cross cut saw with a screw driver.

When setting up a fine tooth dovetail saw, the crosscut teeth need to be made to cut rip. After reshaping and sharpening the teeth, they will need to be set.
A small screwdriver inserted between every other set of teeth and gently twisting works great. If you haven't tried it, you should.

I learned this technique from Klausz video. It is in the first minute of his Video "Hand Tools. Maybe you should visit with Frank.

[Pete Taran]

Lowell,

Having made several thousand dovetail saws, I'm pretty familiar with the process. Hammer setting was how they set saws in the really old days, 1700s to mid 1800s. If the process was so fantastic and trouble free, there would not be literally millions of saw sets floating around the world. Said another way, hammer setting does work, just like riding a horse and buggy works if you don't have a car to get from point a to point b. To offer up that kind of advise to someone who has already stated they are not interested in doctoring saws serves little purpose if you ask me.

As to Frank, when I started making dovetail saws I met him at a show and he placed an order for a dovetail saw for every employee in his shop. Since it was such a high visibility order, I traveled to Pluckemin (sp?) NJ to deliver them and even take part in his holiday celebration. Attached are some photos I just took of a couple of scraps he dovetailed on the spot with one of the saws we had just delivered. The Patrick was my partner at the time, Patrick Leach. As part of that process, we talked about saws and saw maintenance. He showed me the saw sets that he liked, and those he didn't like. I don't recall any talk of screwdriver setting. He is a big fan of doing the best you have with what you have. He emigrated from Hungary when the Soviets took over in the 1950s, so I'm sure he did this out of necessity.

fk1.jpgfk2.jpg

[lowell holmes]

Pete, You certainly are more knowledgeable than I am concerning these things. I did not realize that you are a saw maker.

I am a garage woodworker that does it as a hobby. I really don't take a different point of view from you.

I retooth, sharpen and use my own saws. I do it just because I can. As a matter of record, I have 6 saw sets, a Taintor, a Somax, and four Stanleys. The first I inherited from my father and old Stanley.
I do screwdriver set extremely fine tooth dove tail saws. I have never taken to hammer setting saw teeth.

I just recently made a usable 8pt cross cut saw out of a rust bucket broken handle saw. It had a damaged saw plate, so I made a "tool box" saw out of it.

[Pete Taran]

Lowell,

Saw maker might be a strong word these days. I did consider myself one once, and have lately been thinking of becoming one again, but am mostly in it like you as a hobby. Spend more time studying saws and their history now that anything.

I bet that Somax set doesn't get a lot of use. Crappiest set ever made in my opinion.

[David Eisenhauer]

Pete, with an apology to Eric, which set do you prefer? And do you prefer a different set for what I call joinery saws (12-13 ppi or smaller toothed?) as opposed to what I call carpentry saws (e.g. Disston, etc 5-6, 8-10 ppi). I ask because I am at the spot where I need to take up setting now that I can scratch around on saw teeth with a file and improve the sharp some. I have one saw that I believe needs re setting and don't have a saw set.

[lowell holmes]

I use the Stanley 42x saw set more than others. Interesting enough, I bought the Somax because Lie Nielsen recommended it at that time.
It's not a real bad set in that it does set the teeth easy enough. It is not as pleasing to use as the Stanley 42x.

The Taintor was purchased (used) because it was popular with carpenters. I prefer the 42x.

[Pete Taran]

I agree with Lowell, I've long extolled the virtues of the 42X. It's the only vintage set I'm aware of that clamps the saw blade while setting the teeth. In my experience, the standard plunger will set teeth down to 13 ppi. I have a second one that I ground the plunger narrower on to set teeth down to 16 or even 17 ppi if you have a saw with teeth that fine.

Another set which I have started using for larger tooth saws in the 4-8 ppi range is the Stanley 42. It's a bigger set than the 42X and doesn't have the clamping feature, but it does have a shelf that aligns with the saw blade. As long as you are careful to keep that shelf touching the saw plate when you set the teeth, you will get very repeatable results.

Both are getting harder to find, but the 42 is more common these days.