working with laminate

[Bob Cooper]

i've built a fair number of cabinets and now i'm putting laminate on some for the first time. I'm sure i'll have lots of questions but here's my first

what's a good way to cut it? table saw vs. angle grinder? does it affect a typical WWII blade? I need to rip a 4x8 sheet down to about 25 or 26" x 8' and then glue/trim w/a router.

Also i'm planning on using contact cement + dowels as a spacer.

anythign i need to be aware of given that this is the first time i've ever done this?

[Lee Schierer]

In my experience, trying to cut laminate on a TS can be a problem. It doesn't want to lie flat and tends to chatter as it is cut, which is bad. Because it is thin, it tends to slide under your fence and hang up as you try to feed it.

You need to cut it slightly oversize so you can trim it later with a flush cut router.

The new water based contact cement is no where as strong and long lasting as the solvent based ones. Be sure to put at least two heavy coats on your substrate before gluing.

[Dick Mahany]

I used a 40 tooth Forrest WWII to cut a number of full sheets on my table saw. Produced super clean cuts and didn't phase the blade one bit. The edges were trimmed with a small trim router and flush trimming bit after gluing it down to the substrate. I had the problem of the sheet wanting to slide under my Bies fence, so I kept a slight curve to the infeed to prevent that, but made sure the laminate was flat against the saw table at the blade.

I also second that the newer water based contact cements aren't as strong as the good old smelly solvent based stuff and had some delaminating when I used it. The standard method of using temporary dowels works like a charm.

[Tim Bueler]

I use a scoring knife. Just score and snap. Careful! Those raw edges are jagged and razor sharp!

Make sure your laminate and substrate are both acclimatized.

For contact cement I still prefer the good old-fashioned smelly stuff. The water based just never dazzled me. It was nice not having to wear a respirator but I had some delaminations. That's been over 15 years ago though, maybe the newer water based formulations are better. That said, a couple of the big shops I've seen that have a big press will use regular old PVA glue out of a 300 gal tote. Kinda interesting to watch. Messy though.

Dowels, rope, extension cord, venetian blinds. Lot's of things will work for a spacer. Once I have the laminate where I want I'll start pulling out the spacer(s). If it's a long piece I'll usually start in the center and work both ways, pull spacers and smoothing with my hand as I go so as not to trap air underneath. Then a good rolling to make sure it connected well. Trim with a good quality carbide bit. Lately I've been liking the downshear bits. Less chance for chipping. Finally I'll break the trimmed edge with a file just to knock the sharpness off.

It's really pretty easy with a shallow learning curve IMO. I think the biggest things are to make sure you have plenty of spacers and that the laminate is exactly where you want it before first contact.

[andy bessette]

I use carbide blades on table saw, bandsaw, builders saw and track saw for cutting laminate. Carbide flush trim router bit for trimming to size. Use a laminate roller to bed it, working from the center out. Rarely do I need dowels--only where the panel is very large. Otherwise I set the panel onto the laminate, rather than the reverse, using my finger tips to hold the panel away while aligning. Plywood edge grain requires extra coats of contact cement.

[Bob Cooper]

I think the biggest things are to make sure you have plenty of spacers and that the laminate is exactly where you want it before first contact.

i picked up 9 1/2" dowels to cover 8'...i'm thinking 1' apart is close enough.

Also the top is 16' long top composed of 2 8' pieces of 3/4" particle board. So i'm assuming i'm going to laminate each piece first and then abut them together -- i.e. not create one big 16' long top and then attaching the laminate. i'll do a front piece -- to hang over the front of the face frame -- first and then the top.

[Frankie Hunt]

In total agreement with Tim. Use a scoring knife and a straight edge, then snap. Cut oversize and trim with a flush trim bit in the router. The original smelly contact cement is the best, but use in a well ventilated area!! Use plenty of sticks/dowels to keep it separated and start removing the sticks in the center and work outward. Use a J roller and work out from the center. A rubber mallet works in a pinch.

[Jeff Duncan]

I use the tablesaw for laminate, anything else just takes too much time, especially when your doing a number of cuts. If your only doing a couple than scoring is fine. If you plan to do more in the future I recommend getting a length of 1/16" thick 1" x1" angle aluminum. Whenever your cutting thin stuff just use a piece of masking tape to attach it to your fence and keep the sheets on top of it. Since it's so thin and you always cut laminate oversize you don't even have to worry about adjusting cut size for it.

I think your plan for laminating the two tops and then attaching should work well. There is a nice little router made by Beaver tools that does seams for long pieces like that.....but probably a bit too spend for a single job

As far as spacing goes....absolutely make sure you do a test run first!!!! With horizontal grade laminate you may get away with 1 dowel per foot.....but I wouldn't make any assumptions!! If it's vertical grade I'd say no way, you'll need more dowels/spacers to make it work. I cannot stress this one detail enough....once the glue is ready and the laminate touches it, there's no repositioning it, it's done!!! Test run, test run, test run!!!

good luck,
JeffD

[julian abram]

I realize you may not have a track saw but I flip a sheet of laminate face down on a sheet of blue Dow board and cut it up with a track saw. I've probably cut up 10 sheets in the past couple years, track saw works great.

[Bob Cooper]

one other thing that was kind of shocking...this stuff was about $80/sheet. wow...just didn't know it was so expensive.

[Warren Lake]

cost relates to what it is ive seen Nevamar stuff with 20 plus years use on it still looks perfect. Table saw is how i mostly cut it, make sure it doesnt get under the fence. lots of time I held it up in a bit of a circle depends what you are cutting on some jobs had shapes to them I cut it with a router oversize by whatever lay the sheet on top of the top sometimes up to 10 feet long. Also did the scoring thing the odd time if the sheet was too big to handle on the saw or had horses and beams set up for support on 10 foot sheets Your overhang doesnt matter too much 1/2" -1" or so, too much and you might snap it. Had a few different trimmers one flush then pre set bevel trimmers. Only used the old contact cement and sprayed with a suction primer gun mcgiverd to be a pressure gun, gravity feed would be better if pressurized even better, better shops used white glue and a press. If you are doing something with a solid edge run good quality masking tape around that keeps any off the wood that would have to be sanded off later, more messy with spraying but rather spray than roll. if you roll spray contact but brushed on use two coats. my dowels were not set distance but more like 6-8" because overkill is better, added time is nothing putting on a few more then pulling them out as you go. Make sure stuff is super clean using the same sticks over and over in time they can have some contact transfer and pick up a few aliens, they wont help in any positive way so I always rub the dowels down quick hand or sometimes some sandpaper. Probably forgotten some stuff been a while since I used it. My desk has nevamar and been treated hard this is about 30 years old, MRX6T or something like that Charcaol matrix I think it was called. Hopefully its not like power tools and they have made it cheaper than in the past. Depending on what you are doing you might need a backer to balance tension.

[andy bessette]

Should have mentioned that I use a yellow foam roller that is made for epoxy. For small jobs, just a throwaway brush.

[Wayne Lomman]

Bob, plenty of good advice from the others but I would point out a few things.
Firstly, construct your top fully before laminating. It's a no no to join your laminate and substrate in the same place. Off set the joint at least 100mm. Any other joining method is cutting corners.
Secondly, use a solvent borne heat resistant contact glue. Others will fail. Spray the glue. An average quality suction gun with a 2.0mm tip works well.
Thirdly, belt sand the substrate flat and dust everything down twice. When the contact is ready to lay, run your hand over both surfaces to check for nibs and get rid of them before laying.
To get a perfect join in the laminate, use a hand plane to clean up the edges. When straight, use a file to back off the reverse edge a little so it is a tight joint. Cheers

[Joe Spear]

I use my tablesaw with a plywood blade. Clamp your fence down really tight to the table so the laminate doesn't slide underneath. It won't chatter and buckle if you hold it down firmly. In the past I have tried the scoring method. The tablesaw produces smooth edges and is much easier. You probably should cut it slightly oversize and trim with a router after gluing to the substrate.

[Joe Kieve]

All the above is good advice. A couple more things though:

*Cutting on a table saw is fine but get someone to help. It's a lot easier that way.

*Use old time stinky contact cement

*If you have an edge band on your top, do it first; then lay the top over it. It keeps stuff from hanging up when sliding across it.

*You can use a cheap 9" paint roller to apply the glue. Lay the plastic on top of your table, roll the glue on, move it, then roll the top.

*If you mess up, you can always use lacquer thinner (not acetone) to unglue it. Let it dry and then reapply.