newbie building cabinet doors, slight warp to them

[pascal young]

Hi there to everyone! I've been reading on this forum for a long time, thanks for all the great advice. I've been tinkering with woodworking on and off for a number of year, consider myself a novice woodworker.
I've been working on building cabinets as a trial in preparation for the master bathroom and kitchen. All the cabinets will be painted.

I'm having problems with the doors built out of pine having a slight warp to them in some of the doors. Suspect part of the problem is the stock I'm starting with - I do not have a jointer and planer and am buying pre-finished wood locally. buying 3x1's got to the point that I couldn't get enough straight pieces at Lowes or HD, so I last time I found a flat 12" board, put a straight edge on it with a track saw and long rail, and ripped the rest on the table saw. results were much better, but some pieces warped after cutting them and had to be set aside.

I've been using pine due to the significant cost difference compared to hardwood and we are painting.

Suggestions on how to prevent this from happening?

thanks!

currently I'm using the following:

pine rails and stiles
5mm panel (varied materials)
22/32 paint grade birch
pocket hole joinery with tite bond glue
Blum 110 blue motion hinges
Blum tandem blue motion

here are a few pictures of the first cabinets:

1/2 bath vanity - right door slightly out at the top
IMG_0798.jpg

above dryer - doors are not symmetrical due to an overhead light that gets in the way, need to add handles
IMG_0799.jpg


office/bedroom cabinet - built in to what was a bi-fold closet, still working on drawers
IMG_0800.jpg

[Robert Engel]

This is a common problem dealing with S4S lumber. Even if you had a jointer, you have no extra material to deal with and end up with 11/16 or 5/8" boards.

I strongly suspect your problem started with ripping wide boards. You probably released internal stress in the wood.

I have used the premium pine HD carries pretty successfully to make doors. Careful selection of stock and limit to 6' long boards you'll be lucky to find one out of 10 worth keeping.

I recommend getting 6" wide stock and ripping in 1/2 to start then sticker the wood overnight under some weight and see what you have the next day.

The straightest wood I save for the stiles, any wood with slight bow I use for rails.

Now, what to do on assembled doors? If they are already glued up, there is not much you can do. You could try using a spline. Do this by plowing a 1/2" wide groove 3/4 of the way deep in the outside edge of the stile, then insert a spline and clamp to a flat surface (or slightly bowed the other direction). Use a hard setting glue like epoxy for this.

But by the time you do all this, it may be easier to start from scratch.

Hope this helps.

[pascal young]

thank you. sounds like the wider the board the more likely I'll have this issue. The funny part is that I started ripping wider boards because I couldn't get enough straight stock.

is this issue less prevalent with S2S? I can check with the local lumber yards to find a better source - the one with a good selection was quite pricey, though they had everything laying flat which makes me feel better.

[Malcolm McLeod]

+1 on Robert's suggestions.

My first attempts at rail & stile doors also suffered from OLFD (Orientation Lacking Flatness Disorder). Like you, I was working with similar limitations in materials and tools. I found any minor misalignment in the joinery, was reflected in the frame. The best solution I found was to make sure the frame and panel was clamped up on a perfectly flat surface. This might pull a given joint open by a few thousandths, but with paint-grade construction this was easily filled.

For stain-grade construction, you have to make sure the joinery on the rails & stiles is all cut with the already flat stock flat to the table/jig/fixture/cutter.

Edit: For this cabinet project you might find a used 4" or 6" jointer for a few dollars that could make life less stressful?

[pascal young]

say I find a decent used jointer and planer, put some new blades on - could I return some of the investment by purchasing rough cut lumber? no idea on how much savings there are in looking for rough cut. I like the idea of not going through dozens of boards looking for something near flat.

[Malcolm McLeod]

You'll have to figure your own ROI, based on prices in your area and the scope of your projects.

My experience is that rough lumber is about 25% of the cost at BORG-esque retailers. You loose some in milling, but I doubt its going to be more than a 25% loss if you plan your cuts well (:: maybe 50% material savings??).

I'd suspect time factor is about a wash? I'd probably spend the same hours shopping the piles as I would milling my own, but I find the latter much more enjoyable.

[pascal young]

that seems reasonable. The next set of cabinets will be after the new floor goes in so i have some time. Thinking I might be best off visiting some of the sawmills and seeing if they offer dried S2S - probably cheaper than the BORGs and more likely to be flat.

thank you!!!!

[Robert Engel]

that seems reasonable. The next set of cabinets will be after the new floor goes in so i have some time. Thinking I might be best off visiting some of the sawmills and seeing if they offer dried S2S - probably cheaper than the BORGs and more likely to be flat.

thank you!!!!

Not necessarily!!

I suggest using kiln dried S3S lumber through a hardware distributor. If you go to a sawmill it will most likely be air dry and you will have to acclimate the lumber for several weeks. Plus it is likely to be rough although some sawmills will plane for a fee but you will still have to remill through the acclimatization process.

If you are painting the doors, I think poplar is a better choice.

The distributor I deal with sells the same clear pine type lumber you see at HD but the quality is way, way better.

[pascal young]

thank you. good point on the kiln dried. is popular more stable than pine? I don't remember the price being too much more.

[Mel Fulks]

Poplar varies a lot in quality depending on who kiln dried. I would say good poplar can be as stable as some pines but probably not as stable as north eastern white pine (Pinus strobus). For the sizes needed for cabinets I consider poplar fine.
Dont accept any poplar that is obviously real crooked and twisted,I'm told that is from bad drying practices.

[Andy Giddings]

Pascal, if you go to a decent lumber yard there's a good chance they'll have some S3S paint grade hardwood (Ash or Maple for example) in the right size for a frame and panel cabinet. It will be a lot better than what you are getting from HD/Lowes and cheaper. Poplar is good for painting but IME doesn't take any sort of impact very well as it's a "softer" hardwood

[pascal young]

thank you, sounds like a field trip one of these weekdays to pick a lumber yard for the rails and stiles. Will see on the wood, price will play a role in that. We don't seem to damage our cabinets much, the pine in the 1/2 bath with washer and dryer is probably the most abused because of laundry baskets and is holding up well.

thanks everyone!