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Thread: Domestic (Northeastern USA) substitute for European Pearwood?

  1. #1

    Domestic (Northeastern USA) substitute for European Pearwood?

    I'm building a vihuela de mano, and the traditional wood used for several parts (e.g., the neck, bridge, ...) is European Pear. I'm trying to build using local woods (maple and walnut for the body), and was wondering if there's a local wood with similar properties to pear. The Wood Database says that it's used in Europe much as Black Cherry is used in the USA, i.e. as a high quality domestic hardwood. But when I read the specs, they don't seem to have very much in common at all - pear is nearly double the Janka hardness, is denser, etc.

    Is there a domestic wood that would be good to substitute for pear?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Recchione View Post
    I'm building a vihuela de mano, and the traditional wood used for several parts (e.g., the neck, bridge, ...) is European Pear. I'm trying to build using local woods (maple and walnut for the body), and was wondering if there's a local wood with similar properties to pear. The Wood Database says that it's used in Europe much as Black Cherry is used in the USA, i.e. as a high quality domestic hardwood. But when I read the specs, they don't seem to have very much in common at all - pear is nearly double the Janka hardness, is denser, etc.

    Is there a domestic wood that would be good to substitute for pear?

    Thanks!
    Hard maple is closer in properties to pear than black cherry, but probably lighter in color. What about bradford pear? It is fairly easy to find as yard and municipal trees are removed.

    I think Dogwood would make a great bridge and neck (very strong) but it is harder and heavier than Pear and probably a lot harder to find.

    Did you try the usual imported wood dealers? I keep a list if you want it. The first one I checked (Cook) indicated they had Pear.

    JKJ

    JKJ

  3. #3
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    How about apple? You'll probably have to cut it yourself, but trees are common enough in the northeast, at least for small parts. I think it is very similar in properties to pear. I've turned some from my trees and like it a lot. I bought some pear wood maybe 20 years ago for a project, it didn't seem hard to come by in small boards at the time. I haven't looked recently.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Recchione View Post
    Is there a domestic wood that would be good to substitute for pear?
    Hey, you might tell what sizes of pieces you are looking for. Someone here may have just what you need and be willing to part with it. Turners, in particular, keep pieces of a variety of specialty wood on hand.

    JKJ

  5. #5
    If you look around - you can find pear.

  6. #6
    Hearne hardwoods in pa say they have it on their website.

    I wonder if American beech might work as a good sub?

  7. #7
    Thanks, everyone - great suggestions. I'm basically looking for just a small amount - enough for a neck, headstock, bridge and maybe pegs. I did find some online. Pennsylvania would count as "locally available". I'll try Hearne Hardwoods.

    The locally available thing is just an artificial challenge or objective that I set for myself on this build. The last one was "100% hand tools". The maple and walnut are from a local sawmill that sells lumber from trees that have either fallen due to storms around here, or were lawn trees that the owners decided to take down - all their wood comes from local tree services. So I thought it would be cool to make this instrument using 100% wood that comes from within 20 or 30 miles of NYC.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Recchione View Post
    The locally available thing is just an artificial challenge or objective that I set for myself on this build. The last one was "100% hand tools".
    Excellent! Hey, speaking of hand tools, do you ever buy from Stewart Macdonald? I recently bought a set of their scrapers and I think they are wonderful:

    I http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools...e_Scraper.html

    JKJ

  9. #9
    They look really nice. StewMac's tools are pretty drool worthy, but I've never bought any. I've only bought top sets, brace blanks and bindings from them. I usually look at StewMac and LMI's tools, and then hack something up in the shop to do the job on the cheap...

  10. #10
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    generally speaking,for classical guitars or steel strung,Brazilian rosewood is the best wood to use. It is not as heavy as ebony,and that doesn't use up as much energy getting to vibrate.

    I have used Nigerian pear for some bridges on early instruments. Swiss pear is quite soft by comparison. Don't forget: violin bridges are made of hard maple,always.

    Don't get too excited about LMI's tools. I bought a German chisel. Proved to be too soft. Bought one of their highly touted HAND MADE rasps,made in Eastern Europe. It was NOT HARDENED!! I hardened it myself by packing it in aquarium charcoal and using my electric knife furnace. I liked the tiny teeth. The blasted thing cost $50.00,which,for a SMALL rasp,was pretty darned high. Some "Lifetime tool" that was!! I told them their rasp was not hardened,but I'm sure it fell on deaf ears. Those people are arrogant anyway.
    Last edited by george wilson; 03-12-2017 at 10:09 AM.

  11. #11
    I've pretty much decided to go with maple for the neck and headstock, and use some scrap rosewood I have for the bridge and pegs. I could probably get by with cherry for the neck - the neck is short (joins at the 10th fret), and the entire scale length is only 620mm. But maple is probably safer. (The instrument will be 6 courses, 12 strings. They're supposed to be gut, but I'll probably buy a 6-course lute synthetic set that sounds reasonably gut-like if I can find one.)

    As I said, I've never bought tools from StewMac or LMI. $130 for a glue pot and over $200 for a bending iron is way too rich for my blood. My glue pot is a small crockpot intended for dips or something, that I got at a yard sale for $5. My bending iron is a piece of scrap black iron pipe that the plumbers left when they replaced the furnace, heated with the same torch I use for my knife forge... I enjoy either making my own tools or repurposing other tools - it's part of the fun of building for me.

  12. #12
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    Hi Mike, If you have a way to heat and harden metals, you can make scrapers like the ones John pointed out. They are very useful for instrument building. I was a student of the guy in that video many years ago, and we all used to make our own because Stew Mac didn't sell them back then. I still use that tool frequently.

    As far as picking neck woods goes, a cherry head stock might be a bit soft for long term use with friction pegs. I have seen guys inlay blocks of hard maple under the headstock veneer so that the friction pegs have something harder to wear on when using a softer wood for the neck.

    Sounds like a fun build. I like to do the "local wood challenge" too.

  13. #13
    Hi Scott, Yes, I do use a lot of scrapers, some stock and some with custom profiles that I've made. I have several very thick ones that I inherited from my uncle - he made them to scrape moldings, so they're profiled for that. I use them for my woodworking as well.

    One of the more useful things I've made is a "two-brick forge", which can be used indoors, and is big enough for most tool making. (Also have a homemade coal/charcoal forge that I can only use outdoors - it gets a lot less use since I made the little one...)

    After watching the video, I'm going to try to make a couple of these very thick, barely tempered scrapers - the curly shavings are certainly impressive!
    Last edited by Mike Recchione; 03-13-2017 at 9:00 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Recchione View Post
    One of the more useful things I've made is a "two-brick forge", which can be used indoors, and is big enough for most tool making. (Also have a homemade coal/charcoal forge that I can only use outdoors - it gets a lot less use since I made the little one...)
    Mike, do you have a link or instructions for the "two-brick forge." It sounds like it would be a very useful addition to my little metal-working shop. Do you heat it with propane?

    JKJ

  15. #15
    Hi John,

    Yes, I was really happy that I made that little forge.

    There are a lot of instructions on the web, some a little different from others, but the basic idea is the same. I can tell you what I did and share some pictures if you like. I think the whole thing cost me about $30, but that was because I already owned the torch for other purposes. The nice thing is that you can pull the torch out and use it for other things - it's not permanently attached. (It's the same torch that I use for brazing, also the one I use to heat my "bending iron").

    Is this the right forum for that discussion? Or should I start a thread somewhere else?

    To your question, I've used MAPP gas with mine, just because that's what's usually attached to my torch head. Other guys use propane. I use the TS-8000 torch head with mine - I think it's the hottest one you can buy at HD for a hand-held torch. But another guy who used the same design uses the TS-4000 with good results. I'm not sure a lesser torch head would get it hot enough. The design of the forge itself is flexible enough to allow you to drill a second hole for a torch head, so you could have two burners simultaneously. I haven't had to do that - I've easily gotten to the non-magnetic point very quickly with just the one burner (TS-8000 with MAPP). I just use the hand-held gas bottles. But if you do a lot of heat-treating, you can use it with a tank.

    Where should I post my pictures and "design"?

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