Best Quality 10" Cabinet Saw

[Curt Harms]

Slope is slippery indeed. Tear into a 75 year old machine and see helical gears, thrust bearings for every handwheel, 63xx spindle bearings and adjusting gibs every place that could wear. Bases cast to carry heavy internals rather than hanging them off the top or sheet steel. Fine grain meehanite graded cast iron planed to tolerances too expensive to duplicate today, and you realize that in their own way, these machines are art. Run 24/7 for 50 years, sit for 25 and still clean up and adjust to zero runout. Whitney, Greenlee, Yates, Tanny, Oliver, Wadkin, and Robinson. May not make any of us a better woodworker but it does change our perceptions of how machines can be made. Not for everyone but it doesn't take much cash to try it. Dave

All true but for those of us with basement shops, what we'd save on equipment we'd spend (plus a bunch likely) on getting those probably 700 lb.+ machines home and in our shops. There's little doubt that for some of us with the right physical plant and mechanical & electrical skills, retired industrial machines are the way to go.

[Chris Hachet]

I very much agree - have the same reaction to the new Nova drill press. Solid state electronics are in general pretty reliable, but they are not maintainable, and are negatively affected over time by temperature cycling, power cycling and physical shock. They also become obsolete quickly (there are parts in 20 year old electronics today that are almost impossible to source new). I'm looking for a new saw, but am increasingly inclined toward one without the electronics.

This is my thinking on equipment as well.

[Chris Hachet]

Depends on your needs, your budget, and your definition of quality....build quality, most powerful, user features, largest, most precise, longest lasting?

$1400 - new Grizzly G1023RL
$500-$1800 used Uni/PM66/General 650, etc., if you're willing to forego a riving knife and warranty, and accept prior usage....possibly heavy usage.
$3900 - new Saw Stop ICS


Best quality overall is subjective to a large degree, and I'm just not very familiar with much beyond the $3000-$4000 range.

The Saw Stop ICS is pretty robust under the hood, even without consideration for the safety feature, but also in part because of it....likely the most robust of the currently available standard "cabinet saws", excluding sliders and specialized commercial saws. The PM2000 is very substantial also, but I suspect the ICS has the edge. The Unisaw is close too, but issues with foreign ownership and manufacture, and recent stories of poor service and parts availability would scratch it off the list considering other solid choices. The SS PCS 3hp isn't quite in that league, but is a very solid saw with the T-Glide fence upgrade. Grizzly has some heavier duty saws beyond the G1023 and G0690, but I'm just not very familiar with them.

From what little I know of the heavier saws they also seem like clones of Delta equipment.

[Van Huskey]

From what little I know of the heavier saws they also seem like clones of Delta equipment.

What are you considering "heavier saws" and which Delta do you think they copy. I can't quite make the jump. In their "day" Delta and Powermatic were both light duty machine manufacturers and I don't see any direct cloning from them in the TS market, even within Delta and Powermatic the move to riving knife saws caused both to completely redesign their saws so there isn't much direct links from the PM 66 to the PM2000 nor the old to the new Uni.

On the electronics issue it begs the question of how long "we" expect the service life for these machines to be. You can easily find Chiwanese machines that are 15-20 years old that have been scrapped due to mechanical parts availability. I think we may be fooling ourselves if we think the average Chinese made TS is a heirloom that will be handed down from generation to generation.

[Chris Hachet]

What are you considering "heavier saws" and which Delta do you think they copy. I can't quite make the jump. In their "day" Delta and Powermatic were both light duty machine manufacturers and I don't see any direct cloning from them in the TS market, even within Delta and Powermatic the move to riving knife saws caused both to completely redesign their saws so there isn't much direct links from the PM 66 to the PM2000 nor the old to the new Uni.

On the electronics issue it begs the question of how long "we" expect the service life for these machines to be. You can easily find Chiwanese machines that are 15-20 years old that have been scrapped due to mechanical parts availability. I think we may be fooling ourselves if we think the average Chinese made TS is a heirloom that will be handed down from generation to generation.

I was thinking that maybe they took some inspiration from the 1214 series of Table saws. In terms of service life, the outright majority of the older American machines have been scrapped as well. I would assume most of these machines died from neglect and abuse rather than actually fully wearing out. Probably the same thing with modern Chiwanese machines. Personally, I like older American iron but am under no illusion that it is perfect.

[David Kumm]

If you go back 10-15 years, some of the Asian clones were pretty close to the original unisaw or Delta 12-14 late model. I know that Grizzly parts were ordered for old Delta 12-14 machines as they were often a direct replacement. Planers looked similar but had different speeds and I suspect more differences than were obvious. The early 14" bandsaws were direct clones although badly done. I keep remembering Elephant or a similar animal name for early Taiwan machines that were pretty close copies. The machining and castings were pretty horrible back then so not all that much was a direct fit. Dave

[Phillip Gregory]

The best quality cabinet saws run larger than 10" blades, such as a Tannewitz, Yates-American, Whitney, Oliver, or Northfield cabinet saw, which ran/run 12-16" blades on something larger than a 5/8" arbor. If you stretch "cabinet saw" to include sliders, there are some excellent European units available, most of which use 300+ mm (12"+) blades.

Probably the best saw designed to be at most a 10" blade non-sliding cabinet saw was the green Powermatic 66, which is in my opinion a touch better than the original and certainly very good Delta Unisaw.

All of the new, currently manufactured 10" cabinet saws I am aware of are made in Southeast Asia and are very similar if not identical, and are in the same general ballpark as the old Unisaw as they are very closely based on it. The SawStop has its one unique feature but otherwise it appears similar to the others. The old Unisaw was a little better fitted and finished than the typical new Asian cabinet saw, but the newer units are left tilt, have riving knives, and have provisions for dust collection, so it's really a "pick 'em" situation. None of them are in the same league as the big guys weighing a half ton plus though. But, as somebody who owns a newer 10" Asian cabinet saw, it is still a giant step up from a contractor saw or an upside-down circular saw benchtop unit, and really a pretty decent unit.

[Patrick Curry]

Can you elaborate? Most of us can find a used Unisaw fir the same price as a 1023 (or lwas)

[David Kumm]

I think most of the new saws have changed enough that they don't follow the old designs anymore. I don't have a Uni picture but this is a Rockwell 12. If you look at the comparable on the websites you will see little similarity.DSCN2210.jpgDSCN2213.jpgDSCN2214.jpg This is much heavier than a 10" but much lighter than an old cast iron Whitney, Oliver, Wadkin type. The 12" saw is really the bargain used. As you can see, this one is even single phase, with a sliding table and separate scoring. Pristine and still only worth about 2K on the market. Dave

[Phillip Gregory]

I think most of the new saws have changed enough that they don't follow the old designs anymore. I don't have a Uni picture but this is a Rockwell 12. If you look at the comparable on the websites you will see little similarity.DSCN2210.jpgDSCN2213.jpgDSCN2214.jpg This is much heavier than a 10" but much lighter than an old cast iron Whitney, Oliver, Wadkin type. The 12" saw is really the bargain used. As you can see, this one is even single phase, with a sliding table and separate scoring. Pristine and still only worth about 2K on the market. Dave

Riving knives and left tilt have changed designs somewhat, but many saws still are very obviously based on the Unisaw. For example the Grizzly G0690 and the several other makers that sell this exact saw are unmistakably based on the Unisaw. Look at the trunions, they are a mirror image of Unisaw trunions. They also share the Unisaw's now unnecessary triple sheave pulleys as well.

There are other designs out there, such as your Rockwell 12 which is based on European sliding saws. American saws didn't often have sliding tables (although some of the big ones like Olivers sometimes did) and scoring blades are very European.

[David Kumm]

Phillip, you are correct about the 690. I was talking about then 1023 referred to above. The 690 is a close copy as was the 12" Grizzly used to sell. The Rockwell 12 is an American design with an afterthought sliding table that was also copied by Grizzly. It has nothing in common with Euro sliders and is really mediocre in comparison. Lots of old American saws had sliders although seldom longer than a 60" crosscut as plywood was scarce. All were in the 14-18" blade range though. 32-36" crosscut was the most common with varying width tables. Dave

[Larry Edgerton]

I have to throw the Minimax SC10 in the mix. Great saw.

[Rick Potter]

Going by original wording of your question....(safety aside...cabinet saw....made today), I will have to go with Van Huskey. SawStop ICS (not PCS) or Powermatic PM 2000.

I have a SawStop PCS, and it is a great saw, but not quite as well built as my 25 year old Unisaw. The ICS is sturdier, and larger.

I do not mention sliders as they are not cabinet saws.

[Ron Bontz]

Personally I would just suggest good old fashion common sene. There is a reason they paint the blade insert RED. A heavy duty wood shaper can be a lot more dangerous than a cabinet saw. All things are relative.

[Chris Hachet]

Personally I would just suggest good old fashion common sene. There is a reason they paint the blade insert RED. A heavy duty wood shaper can be a lot more dangerous than a cabinet saw. All things are relative.

That approach works well for me!