Veritas Shooting Plane quite a bit out of square. How important is this?

[george wilson]

For what it's worth,ISO means NOTHING except that a factory has agreed to maintain their tools,dies,and equipment according to the guide lines that the particular ISO grade that they selected provide. There are different ISO guidelines. Some much more stringent than others.

At least that's what a machinist friend,who runs a machine shop in Hampton's NASA,tells me.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Lets be careful here folks about touting unsubstantiated "facts". As for measuring with an engineers square, be careful. If it has been dropped, mishandled, or is one of several brands with no reference made to a established quality standard the square itself can be out of square a few thousandths of an inch. It is worthwhile to take even the best quality engineers squares and test them for accuracy. Personally, I keep my precision straight edge, accurate engineers squares, test gages, and one set of calipers for reference and test only. They are carefully stored to ensure they don't see general use and don't get damaged. I periodically test for accuracy against an established standard. It is really easy to unwittingly knock precision measuring tools out of accuracy.

[William Fretwell]

First of all, I doubt that General leaves castings outside for two years when normalizing will serve the same function at a fraction of the cost of tying up two years worth of casting production. They're making saws, not wine.

.

Yes.They.DO. Rob you can theorise about something you know nothing about so you feel more comfortable, but quite frankly it's ridiculous. It was a stated part of their manufacturing in their brochure when I bought my table saw.

[Simon MacGowen]

Ok, here is what I found out:

1) All my Veritas planes (shooting, custom, LAJ, and low angle smooth -- can't measure squareness for the jointer and bevel-up smooth for obvious reasons) are square. I won't use the term dead square as a woodworker and I am no machinist. I used three different Veritas precision squares for the checking, one of which is a "reference" square, meaning it is not used for day-to-day jobs in the shop. Engineer's squares are not necessarily accurate enough.

2) All the soles are confirmed straight and flat, using a 24" steel straight edge and a feeler gauge set (0.001") from LVT (made in USA). Again, I am not saying the kind of dead straightness and flatness that a machinist may demand. I am a woodworker.

I did this out of curiosity, not needs, because as I stated, I have built so many furniture pieces with these planes at various stages that I never saw a problem when the finished pieces were measured against their squareness or flatness.

Simon
PS These planes have been with me from 2 years to well over 12 years, after ditching most of my woodies.

[Kees Heiden]

As you all might understand, I rushed out to the shop and put my DIN certified precision straightedge on the bottom of the wooden planes I made last winter. Excrement! Some of them are not totally flat anymore! What to do? Send them back?

( I hope you can forgive me a little bit of lighthearted sarcasm)

[Jeff Ranck]

I always thought that all the ISO standard ensured is that if you made it incorrectly, you made it incorrectly every single time. In other words, it goes to consistency not correctness.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Dead flat, dead square, as were my Veritas bevel up jointer, smoother, and jack.
IMG_0929.jpg

Edit: my shooting plane is from the first day of release, so it is likely the first batch. My jointer, jack, and smoother are all well-used and dropped once or twice. Measured with Incra guaranteed square and a LV aluminum straight edge.

Conspiracy theory- What if all the Veritas straight edges are intentionally made a little bit off to hide the fact that their planes are not flat. ...and yes, I'm kidding. This being the internet, someone will take it seriously. Rob Lee is also spraying us with chemtrails to make us buy his tools. He sprays my house more than others apparently.

[Simon MacGowen]

Conspiracy theory- What if all the Veritas straight edges are intentionally made a little bit off to hide the fact that their planes are not flat.

Quick, I need to borrow my neighbor's Bridge City straight edge to check mine!!! Should I also check the precision squares? :-) :-)

Simon

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Quick, I need to borrow my neighbor's Bridge City straight edge to check mine!!! Should I also check the precision squares? :-) :-)

Simon

You just triggered the Veritas Chem Trail Squad over your house. Within hours you will be online buying more tools and have no recollection of this conversation. Their motto: "We keep flyin' so you keep buyin'."

IMG_0807.jpg

[Rob Luter]

Yes.They.DO. Rob you can theorise about something you know nothing about so you feel more comfortable, but quite frankly it's ridiculous. It was a stated part of their manufacturing in their brochure when I bought my table saw.

Then their operations guy should be fired. I've been in manufacturing for 35 years and tying up two years worth of WIP castings so Mother Nature can normalize them is ridiculous.

[Simon MacGowen]

Then their operations guy should be fired. I've been in manufacturing for 35 years and tying up two years worth of WIP castings so Mother Nature can normalize them is ridiculous.

Are we talking about General/General International? I couldn't find anything on its website about this topic. It does sound like a ridiculous practice and I hope it can be proved or disproved by something like SNOPES.

Simon

[Frederick Skelly]

Are we talking about General/General International? I couldn't find anything on its website about this topic. It does sound like a ridiculous practice and I hope it can be proved or disproved by something like SNOPES.

Simon

I wonder if Customer Service or Tech Support would answer that question? If the company thinks that doing this is a selling point, they'd surely tell their folks on the phone so they could brag about it. Just a thought....

[Malcolm McLeod]

Are we talking about General/General International? I couldn't find anything on its website about this topic. It does sound like a ridiculous practice and I hope it can be proved or disproved by something like SNOPES.

Simon

I thought this thread was a Veritas bashing thread?!?!? ...Must all bashing be so misconscrewed?


Sorry, Hasin - - I know you didn't mean it to devolve into this, but I couldn't resist.

[allen long]

Yes, that is the issue I had when NASA Marshall Space Flight Center (MSFC) decided they were going to be ISI 9000 compliant. This is especially problematic given that the standard is geared toward consistent manufacturing processes of commercial quatities. NASA is geared toward R&D and the building large single units (Hubble telescope) or a very low numbe of units (Space shuttle). Even the boosters for the shuttle were manufactured in very limited numbers with much of the work accomplished by hand.

MSFC had the ability to screw up a free lunch.

[Jason Dean]

There is no such thing as a defect free manufacturing process. The difference between good companies and bad ones comes down to how they handle defects when they arise.

Just the fact that the OP has direct feedback and attention from the company president tells me all I need to know.