Setting up Duct work with Super Dust Deputy

[Steve Reich]

I am hoping that I can get some advice from the experts here on how to best complete the redesign of my DC system.

In January, I bought a Super Dust Deputy to make a better two-stage collection with my Shop Fox W1685 rated at 1.5 hp, 1280 cfm, with a Wynn Environmental pleated filter. It made a remarkable improvement over the Rockler Dust Right 4” dust separator. Because my shop is in a basement, with low ceiling clearance, I find it very difficult to cart the DC from machine to machine. I decided to build a stationary structure for the DC, and after reviewing a lot of plans on the web, I designed what is pictured here. The yellow dust bin sits atop a scissor jack. When it’s time to empty the bin, I just release the tension ring on the lid, lower the jack, empty the bin, put it back on the jack, elevate the jack, and reattach the lid. It works well.

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But as you can see from the image, I am now stretching 20’ of 4” flexible hose from machine to machine. The results are good--- much better than anything I’ve been able to accomplish with dust collection to date--but I would like to get rid of the flex hose and put in permanent duct work, which brings me to my questions.

First, I'm puzzled on the appropriate duct size for the main runs. Little did I realize that you cannot use 6” pipe with the SDD because the inlet on it is only 5”. Oneida says on their FAQ for the SDD (small print that I discovered after I bought and used it) that they don’t recommend using 6” ducts; in fact, they warn that “pipe diameter should never decrease in size on its way towards the dust collector.” Thus it seems that one should not reverse attach a 6>5 reducer to the SDD to accommodate 6-inch pipes. Is that correct? If so, I'm plan to use 5-inch pipes, rather than reducing to 4-inch.

Second, I've decided on 26 gauge metal for the pipes (especially since, if I have to use 5 inch, it's very difficult to find PVC in 5 inch). I have found that my local home improvement stores carry 26 gauge 5” pipe for $5.73 per 2’ lengths (6" is not that much more expensive). I’d need about 30’ in total. The real cost is in finding affordable wyes and elbows that won’t break the bank. I’ve also learned that I have to be careful of air flow direction and that any old HVAC wye won’t do because of the location of the crimp. The cost of reverse flow wyes from places like Oneida, PSI, KenCraft, and Air Handling Systems is very expensive (enough to make me want to just use 4” PVC). But then I found these wyes and elbows from Simply Plumbing. Shipping is reasonable. They also have 5’ to 4” reducers and 5” starter collars that I thought I could use to make 5” ports, at least for the table saw, jointer, and band saw.

Will those wyes and elbows work? I ask because they don’t have crimps, and I don’t want to order them and discover that I can’t properly attach pipes to them. Moreover, I'm not sure what gauge they are. If they are only 30 gauge, is it ok to use the lighter steel in connectors? If these are not proper, then could I use these molded plastic wyes from Woodcraft, or are they only suitable for attaching flex tubing?

I appreciate any help, advice, direction, and wisdom you might offer.

[James Gunning]

Steve,

Here is a portable unit I built using a metal SDD+Penn State blower+Wynn filter. You won't need some of the features that allow portability, but it will give you an idea of how compact an SDD installation can be. According to Oneida, your plastic SDD is the same height as my metal one (27"). Your blower looks as if it might be taller. but with the blower and SDD close coupled, you could lower your unit or get a larger bin underneath if you wanted to. My maximum height is 74" from the top of the motor to the floor. As you can see, I used a 35 gallon trash can for a chip bin. Also, it may be possible (or not) to raise your blower motor into the space between the joists.

You can use 6" pipe with a SDD. I strongly recommend it. First, 5" pipe is much less common and harder to find. (as least locally for me) 6" is a standard size even the big box stores often have. You have no choice but to step down to 5" at the SDD, and I wish we didn't have to, but there it is. However, you will still see dramatically increased airflow if you step up at the SDD to 6" pipe. Oneida is no doubt doing a bit of corporate CYA by saying not to use 6" pipe. I can prove that 6" works just fine, but like everything there are limits. My unit is designed to work with one tool at a time, and because of it's small blower, (1HP-10" impeller) I would not want to hook it up to a large ducting system. In your case, for 110 volts, you have the ideal blower in your Shop Fox unit. It has a 12" impeller and should give you the most performance possible from 1.5HP. Using smooth wall 6" ducting (IOW ditch the 20' of 4" flex hose) I believe you can use a well designed ducting system with your SDD+blower and get good results. I currently use a bit less than 10' of 6" flex hose to hook up to my tools. However, I also upsized the pickups on the tools to 6" as well. Where I couldn't easily enlarge the pickup I used manifolds with multiple points of pickup to approximate the 6" area.

Hopefully, Andy Giddings will chime in. He has the same blower as you hooked up to a SDD. If I can find one, I intend to upgrade to the same Shop Fox blower myself. Come on Craigslist! Be glad to answer any construction questions you might have.

SDD-PS blower-Wynn Filter-2.jpgSDD-PS blower-Wynn Filter-4.jpgSDD-PS blower-Wynn Filter-3.jpgSDD-PS blower-Wynn Filter-5.jpg

Edit: How is the exhaust from your blower getting to the filter? Was your photo taken while mocking up your build before it was finished?

[Carl Kona]

Steve those wyes are a great find and you have a nice setup with the motor on top of the SDD. You will need a crimper for the the correct end of the fittings. I would not worry about the gauge for your system. The structure of the wye will hold up even if it is 30 gauge (which is likely at that price). With a 1.5HP you will not have that much SP after the SDD to do any damage. I am surprised that the local home improvement does not have longer 5" sections. If you are talking about HD and the like most offer the longer 26 gauge online and can have them shipped to the store. I would not reduce anything down below 5", instead make 5" ports for every machine. Many people upgrade the ports on the machines to 5 or 6". Your 1.5HP machine with filter will produce less than 1000CFM (probably closer to 800 like my old Jet 1.5HP) then the SDD will leave 60% of that for you to attach pipe. Check a static pressure chart (for all your connections and pipe length to find out how more SP loss you will incur) like https://www.airhand.com/designing/ . With 5" hard pipe you will be amazed at how much better your performance will be over 4" flex!

Keep us posted on what you do.

Carl

[Carl Kona]

@James Gunning - I like your setup and the SDD. Can you tell me how well your unit is on separation with fine dust (if you create it). Do you use a sander or router and if so can you approximate per load of discharge how much passes into the filter bucket? (1-2 cups per 30 gallons of discharge)??

Thanks,

Carl

[James Gunning]

18-inch-Jet-bandsaw.jpg18-inch-Jet-bandsaw-2.jpg18" Jet bandsaw Hood-for-Dewalt 734-12.5-inch-planer.jpgDewalt 734 planer Powermatic-jointer.jpgPowermatic jointer Hookup-on-table-saw.jpgManifold on back of table saw

Steve,

Sorry, I mean't to include this my initial reply but hit the button too soon.

Here are a few ideas on how to upsize your machine ports.

[Steve Reich]

Dear James and Carl:

Thanks for the very informative replies. James, it is reassuring to learn that I can use 6" pipes with the SDD. It will make shopping for parts easier. Carl, thanks for the feedback on the wyes. If I go to 6-inch pipes, that same outfit has 6-inch wyes at a slightly higher price; I am also grateful for reassurance that even if they are 30 ga., I will be fine. And a crimper to make the final fitting makes sense. Whichever way I go--6 inch or 5 inch---I'm planning to adjust the ports on as many of my machines as I can. I have a shop-made collector box on my contractor TS, and I can easily expand the port from 4" to 6." I recently figured out that the best way to enclose the back is with a corrugated white sheet called Plaskolite (sold at Lowes in 2' x 3' sheets for less than $10). Enclosing the back dramatically improved the suction. Here's a couple of pictures. I also have a SharkGuard on order for over the blade dust collection.

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Have either of you had much luck improving the port on your planer? I have the Dewalt 735 and the 4-inch port is really more like a 4" fitting over a 2.5" hole.

I will keep you posted on developments. Thanks again.

[Andy Giddings]

Steve, regardless of what Oneida recommends, like James states, I can assure you 6 inch duct reduced down to 5 at the inlet works fine with the Shop Fox. I've tried both and ended up with a significant increase in flow moving to 6. Just make sure your reduction is a slow taper and that any fittings are crimped to suit the direction of flow. In terms of flow rate with the Shop Fox, I get around 900 CFM at the end of 16 ft of 6 inch duct and that's with 3 large radius 90's and after reducing it down at the opposite end to the Deputy from 6 inch to a 120mm diameter again for my Hammer Combo (120 is a bit smaller than 5 inch). I used an Oneida 6-5 reducer and a Fernco rubber coupling to mate that with the Deputy

[Steve Reich]

James:

Saw your other question below the images.

The exhaust from my blower gets to the filter via a 5-inch flex hose (it comes with the Shop Fox) that connects the blower to the conical drum on which the canister filter sits. It runs behind the filter, so it's hard to see in the image that I attached.

Steve

[Steve Reich]

James:

Those are nice looking fittings. Did you make that fitting for the Dewalt planer, or was it something that you ordered? How did you attach it to the planer? I have the 735, which is fairly similar, but am not a big fan of the port on it.

[Carl Kona]

Andy,

I have the same question for you James and Steve about separation. Can you tell me how well your unit is on separation with fine dust (if you create it). Do you use a sander or router and if so can you approximate per load of discharge how much passes into the filter bucket? (1-2 cups per 30 gallons of discharge)??

Thanks,

Carl

[Steve Reich]

Dear Andy:

Many thanks for the comments and advice and for backing up what Jim says. This is very reassuring, and I also appreciate the details on how to construct the proper 6>5 reduction.

[Steve Reich]

Carl:

I'm not sure exactly, so I took a picture of the fine dust that is collected in my bag under the filter. That is what has dropped into the bag since I started running the the set up that I have pictured, which has been since mid-January. More accurately, I have emptied that yellow bin (which is 20 gallons) three times over that period (though it was only about half full each time). So, the fine dust that currently sits in the bottom of bag is there from probably 30+ gallons of chips and dust separated into the yellow bin. Does that make sense and give you something of an answer?


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[James Gunning]

Carl,

I've never really carefully measured the amount of bypassed dust, but in six months light use, I never had enough to cover the bottom of the 12" diameter catch bucket. I have a Performax 22-44, but used it just a couple of times with the current DC unit. I intend to upgrade the pickup on it before any further use. Since that time my garage is so full I can't get near my tools. I use a shop vac with a Dust Deputy to collect directly from the router, and haven't used the DC on a router table yet. The plan for the router table is 2.25" and 4" hoses above and below going to a manifold with a 6" connection.

Edit: Carl, it dawned on me I have dumped a full 35 gallon bin about 1.5 times to get the "not enough to cover" the bottom result. I did clean the filter some time after that and got just enough to coat the bottom. Less than a cup.

[Carl Kona]

Thanks Steve. That is great. It hard to see but is that about 2 cups worth? It looks like pretty fine dust is that from a sander? Did you clean or knock the filter to get that or just bypass?

Carl

[Carl Kona]

Thanks James. I have seen many users of full size cyclones complain about the fine dust bypass from sanders and routers, but not many users of the SDDs. Most I have talked with exhaust outside. Appreciate the feedback.

Carl