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Thread: Soliciting Fiber Power Suggestions

  1. #1
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    Soliciting Fiber Power Suggestions

    I have a question about fiber power. I was talking with a laser rep last week and in discussions about laser power he mention that there isn't really a need for more than 30W (e.g. 50W) of power unless you're looking for speed on fiber marking.

    I've done a cursory search on this and I haven't found a lot of specific information with regards to this specific topic. I thought I would throw this out for discussion. I had been preparing to pay the price difference and get a 50W laser (approx. +$10K) over the 30W laser, but the rep made sense when it came to the power. He said it wasn't going to change what I could work on, that it would only change the laser time and he asked if it was really worth the additional $10k. In my case the additional $10k for speed alone doesn't justify the need for the speed, unless it's dramatically different.

    Any advice is appreciated.

    Thanks...
    Last edited by Jeff Heinrichs; 03-20-2017 at 9:45 PM.

  2. #2
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    As with most questions of this type... The answer depends greatly on how you are planning to use the Fiber Laser - Marking, Etching, Deep engraving....
    Tim
    There are Big Brain people & Small Brain people. I'm one of the Big Brains - with a lot of empty space.- me
    50W Fiber - Raycus/MaxPhotonics - It's a metal eating beast!
    Epilog Fusion M2 50/30 Co2/Fiber - 2015
    Epilog Mini 24 35watt - 2006 (Original Tube)
    Ricoh SG3110DN
    - Liberty Laser LLC

  3. #3
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    Thanks Tim, but it's really open to that as advice to. Since it's a fiber laser and your not generally speaking, able cut metal I would like to solicit what a 50W laser will do over a 30W laser. If you have an opinion on the ability of 50W laser to markedly deep engrave on metal, please share that. According to the rep it sounds like a 50W really won't do ANYTHING different than mark faster than a 30W.

  4. #4
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    There are two main things that you can do better with a 50 vs 30:
    1. Faster in all types of engraving - surface or deep, even staining will be faster.
    2. Larger working area - the larger working area you have means you have less power on the outer limits, with a 50 watt you can extend those limits farther and still have plenty of power to get the job done.

    If you really want more throughput and you are not needing to work large areas, then you'd be better off with two 30's vs one 50. I'm not sure how much power you would need to run twice as fast as a 30, but it is certainly more than 60, probably more like 80 or 90. For the price of a 90 you could buy 3 or 4 30's.

    If you need a larger working area, 175mmx175mm is pretty comfortable for a 30, then you can either choose a 50 (or higher) or a 30 with an X-Y stage. The X-Y stage is probably more versatile and I'm not sure how it would compare to a 50 price wise.

    It all comes down to what you want and need. My two 30's are serving me quite well and I don't regret not getting a 50 instead.
    I have done so much with so little for so long, that I can do almost anything with practically nothing...

    Trotec Speedy 400 80 watt 8/2015
    G. Weike LF-30, 30 watt galvo fiber - 1/2016
    G. Weike LF-30, 30 watt galvo fiber - 3/2015
    DCS-1024DD - 10" x 24" UV Printer
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  5. #5
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    Gary,

    I am asking this out of general interest, not because I am about to order a fiber so please ignore me if you dont have time to answer. No worries.

    What do you mean when you say an X-Y Stage? Is that a stage that moves automatically? Presumably to allow you to work on a piece that is larger than your fiber's power would normally do? In other words the stage, with the oversized piece on it, moves under your lens to present the entire piece to the efficient area of the fiber beam?

    Dave
    900x600 80watt EFR Tube laser from Liaocheng Ray Fine Tech LTD. Also a 900x600 2.5kw spindle CNC from Ray Fine. And my main tool, a well used and loved Jet 1642 Woodlathe with an outboard toolrest that helps me work from 36 inch diameters down to reallllllly tiny stuff.

  6. #6
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    I think Gary's comments refer to a galvo type Fiber only. MY Epilog M2 works differently. I do have a 30 & wish I had bought a 50 as I do more deep engraving which takes way too long with the 30. A galvo "would" had been a better option for my type of work.
    Tim
    There are Big Brain people & Small Brain people. I'm one of the Big Brains - with a lot of empty space.- me
    50W Fiber - Raycus/MaxPhotonics - It's a metal eating beast!
    Epilog Fusion M2 50/30 Co2/Fiber - 2015
    Epilog Mini 24 35watt - 2006 (Original Tube)
    Ricoh SG3110DN
    - Liberty Laser LLC

  7. #7
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    Sorry Tim, I did realize Gary meant a Galvo. I was just curious what the term XY stage referred to. Obviously a 50 and a 30 galvo will have a stage or table that you are working on. And you might expect a 50 to have a larger stage since it has enough power to cover a wider area on a state. But it sounded like his reference of an XY stage was referring to something else?
    900x600 80watt EFR Tube laser from Liaocheng Ray Fine Tech LTD. Also a 900x600 2.5kw spindle CNC from Ray Fine. And my main tool, a well used and loved Jet 1642 Woodlathe with an outboard toolrest that helps me work from 36 inch diameters down to reallllllly tiny stuff.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Somers View Post
    Gary,

    I am asking this out of general interest, not because I am about to order a fiber so please ignore me if you dont have time to answer. No worries.

    What do you mean when you say an X-Y Stage? Is that a stage that moves automatically? Presumably to allow you to work on a piece that is larger than your fiber's power would normally do? In other words the stage, with the oversized piece on it, moves under your lens to present the entire piece to the efficient area of the fiber beam?

    Dave
    I'm referring to a "moving table". Instead of a gantry machine where the optics move, the galvo with an X-Y stage moves the table that the part is sitting on. Yes, it moves it to the optimal location for the lens you are using.
    I have done so much with so little for so long, that I can do almost anything with practically nothing...

    Trotec Speedy 400 80 watt 8/2015
    G. Weike LF-30, 30 watt galvo fiber - 1/2016
    G. Weike LF-30, 30 watt galvo fiber - 3/2015
    DCS-1024DD - 10" x 24" UV Printer
    Fargo HDP5000 Card printer
    40HP Diesel, Rotary screw compressor - "The Beast"
    24" x 40" sandblasting cabinet
    FFL-01


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Bateson View Post
    I think Gary's comments refer to a galvo type Fiber only. MY Epilog M2 works differently. I do have a 30 & wish I had bought a 50 as I do more deep engraving which takes way too long with the 30. A galvo "would" had been a better option for my type of work.
    Because of the way a gantry works vs galvo, I don't think that 50 watts would get you much more than 30. Power isn't the real issue, it's how the machine works. I would bet that a 50 watt gantry fiber would still be slower than my 30 watt galvo for deep engraving.
    I have done so much with so little for so long, that I can do almost anything with practically nothing...

    Trotec Speedy 400 80 watt 8/2015
    G. Weike LF-30, 30 watt galvo fiber - 1/2016
    G. Weike LF-30, 30 watt galvo fiber - 3/2015
    DCS-1024DD - 10" x 24" UV Printer
    Fargo HDP5000 Card printer
    40HP Diesel, Rotary screw compressor - "The Beast"
    24" x 40" sandblasting cabinet
    FFL-01


  10. #10
    Yolanda at Triumph also tried talking me out of a 30w in favor of saving money on a 20w. But I know my work, any money saved on a 20w would've soon got overrun by the extra time needed for certain jobs.

    Case in point: Friday thru Sunday night my fiber generated close to $3000, 2/3 of it from one job. Due to the nature of this particular job, I'd have been looking at several extra hours with a 20w machine. Likewise, a 50w machine would have shortened the work time. However, a second machine would have been no help at all, because of 14 setup changes happening every 15 to 30 seconds or less. Time spent trying to keep up with 2 machines at this rate would've been time wasted. However, it would be NO problem changing setups every 10 to 20 seconds or less

    Lest we forget-- Time IS Money

    Truth is I could make very good use of a 50w machine, to the point that if I had to choose between a 30 and a 50, or three 30's, I'd probably take the 30 and 50...

    But for a first machine, I would suggest that a 30w machine with a 160 lens (what I have) would be a great choice. It's working well, and it's much more fun to need to upgrade than to downgrade



  11. #11
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    Excellent discussions. Thanks for the inputs. Those inputs are a real help for me. I think, for the time being, a 30W fiber (on a gantry machine) will suit me okay and I can bump up the CO2 to ~120W which will definitely prove useful across a wider range of materials and material thicknesses.

  12. #12
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    I just ordered a 30 watt, the quote for a 50 watt was almost but not quite 2x the price. Going purely on price point, 30 watt is the sweet spot. In round numbers, going from 20 to 30 was about $850, 30-50 was $5900.
    Trotec Speedy 400 80watt, IS400 Volume (2x), LS100ex, Rayzist SandBlaster,
    Valiani MATPRO IX 150 Mat Cutter, Mitre-Mite T-350 double miter saw

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Hair View Post
    I'm referring to a "moving table". Instead of a gantry machine where the optics move, the galvo with an X-Y stage moves the table that the part is sitting on. Yes, it moves it to the optimal location for the lens you are using.
    Do you know if such a machine exists Gary, or would that be a custom build from someone like Jimani? I'm still doing lots of 20" x 42" stainless panels and they are a real pain. Good money, but a pain. I'm guessing something like this would run in the neighborhood of $60-$70k or more.
    Scott Challoner
    30W LaserPro Spirit (Need more power)
    30W Wisely Fiber Galvo

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Challoner View Post
    Do you know if such a machine exists Gary, or would that be a custom build from someone like Jimani? I'm still doing lots of 20" x 42" stainless panels and they are a real pain. Good money, but a pain. I'm guessing something like this would run in the neighborhood of $60-$70k or more.
    Jimani is exactly who I thought of for this machine. I have no idea about pricing but my guess is that your guesstimate is a bit on the high side. It would be worth a call to Jim Earman to see what he has available. A couple of things to think about with pricing from Jimani - the machine you get from them will be worlds different than what you (and I) have now, the software will be vastly different, and so will the support. You will have a machine that will perform for you from day one. You might be able to find the hardware to do this but good luck getting software to work with it. Moving the table is no big deal, moving the table *reliably* where you actually want it, is.
    I have done so much with so little for so long, that I can do almost anything with practically nothing...

    Trotec Speedy 400 80 watt 8/2015
    G. Weike LF-30, 30 watt galvo fiber - 1/2016
    G. Weike LF-30, 30 watt galvo fiber - 3/2015
    DCS-1024DD - 10" x 24" UV Printer
    Fargo HDP5000 Card printer
    40HP Diesel, Rotary screw compressor - "The Beast"
    24" x 40" sandblasting cabinet
    FFL-01


  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Hair View Post
    Because of the way a gantry works vs galvo, I don't think that 50 watts would get you much more than 30. Power isn't the real issue, it's how the machine works. I would bet that a 50 watt gantry fiber would still be slower than my 30 watt galvo for deep engraving.
    I agree 100%. I've learned a lot since my M2 purchase. If I had it to do over again, & I will soon, I'd absolutely go with a galvo. There is so much difference between both types of Fibers that I totally missed in my research and of-course the sales people made me believe the Fusion M2 could do anything a galvo could.. NOT.
    Last edited by Tim Bateson; 03-21-2017 at 4:02 PM.
    Tim
    There are Big Brain people & Small Brain people. I'm one of the Big Brains - with a lot of empty space.- me
    50W Fiber - Raycus/MaxPhotonics - It's a metal eating beast!
    Epilog Fusion M2 50/30 Co2/Fiber - 2015
    Epilog Mini 24 35watt - 2006 (Original Tube)
    Ricoh SG3110DN
    - Liberty Laser LLC

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