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Thread: Waterlox vs Formsby Tung Oil vs Watco

  1. #1

    Thumbs down Waterlox vs Formsby Tung Oil vs Watco

    I am ready to finish a Black Walnut Cookie Slab (35 inches round) - it is about the color of coffee beans with lighter highlights. I will be using it as a coffee table and want it to be very resistant to liquids & hot items. I also want a satin finish and prefer not to make the color too much darker.

    My plan is to use a grain filler, finish (poss. sealer first if appropriate).

    The questions is do I go with:
    - Waterlox - satin (my current 1st choice since it is so good for water resistance)
    - Formsby Tung Oil - satin (which I understand can form white marks from water or heat)

    And depending on your recommendation. Please advise on a wood grain filler. what brand ? and do I go light on color of the wood filler (since the wood is so dark), clear or dark which some people tell me will bring the grain out even more (although I wonder since the slab is very dark to begin with).

    Finally: how do I keep the wood grain filler out of some of the larger cracks around the edge of the slab which I want to preserve.

    Thanks for your insight,
    Allen

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    65,677
    Formsby Tung Oil Finish isn't "tung oil"...it's a wiping varnish. Of the two, I'd choose the Waterlox just because it's a great product. I can't help you with the grain filler question as I don't use it.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #3
    do you think the grain filler is just not necessary ? and overkill ? If so, maybe I just skip it.

    I called Waterlox and they suggested 4 to 5 coats of their original sealer-finisher and one final coat of the Original Satin Finish.

    I was leaning towards Waterlox based on what I read so I am happy to see I came to the same conclusion as someone who knows what they are doing.

    Will Waterlox go so dark that I don't see the rings in the wood ? or will it add clarity ?

    Thanks again....
    Allen

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Issaquah, Washington
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    Allen,
    Waterlox OSF for all coats and MicroMesh rubout for final sheen, the solids in satin obscure to grain. No need for pore filler but if you do I recommend TimberMate in a darker color. Waterlox will add a slight amber tone but does not darken walnut to the point of obscuring the grain, it actually highlights the pattern.

    None of this is gospel but I do a lot of work in walnut with Waterlox and have pretty much settled on the above if I have the time (30 days plus) for the the Waterlox to off gas prior to rub out.

    I can probably post some examples if you want.

    Regards - Bill

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McNiel View Post
    Allen,
    Waterlox OSF for all coats and MicroMesh rubout for final sheen, the solids in satin obscure to grain. No need for pore filler but if you do I recommend TimberMate in a darker color. Waterlox will add a slight amber tone but does not darken walnut to the point of obscuring the grain, it actually highlights the pattern.

    None of this is gospel but I do a lot of work in walnut with Waterlox and have pretty much settled on the above if I have the time (30 days plus) for the the Waterlox to off gas prior to rub out.

    I can probably post some examples if you want.

    Regards - Bill

    Bill,

    Can I assume OSF stands for Original Satin Finish ? I had called Watelox and they suggested one coat of their sealer finish and then one coat of the Original Satin Finish. Does that sound like a good idea or something you would challenge ?

    Also. I don't want a high gloss finish so I guess I may have to give up some visibility to the grain. But am I better off using a high gloss and then using the micro mesh to bring it to a satin finish - would that work ? Finally, some people say to sane with 0000 steel wool when done. I have this already and don't have the micromesh. In your opinion is there a big difference ?

    Thanks for the advice,
    Allen

  6. #6
    also.. please do send me any sample photos or links to such photos. I would love to see it on Black Walnut !
    thanks again

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    New England (Connecticut)
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    22
    I would go water lox and build up the finish and buff to a desired sheen

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    New Hampshire, USA
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    240
    To grain fill, or not to grain fill walnut is a matter of personal tastes in my opinion. Some people like the more organic and textured look of the wood without the pores filled, but some like it the other way. If you want the finished surface to be absolutely smooth, with no tiny dips in the surface from pores, then filling is the fastest way to achieve that with walnut in my opinion. I have only done a few walnut things with waterlox, and it would have taken a long time for me to fill pores without a filler (I use Crystal Lac most recently). In contrast, cherry seems to fill and level pretty easily using waterlox without resorting to a filler.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    Issaquah, Washington
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Seidman View Post
    Bill,

    Can I assume OSF stands for Original Satin Finish ? I had called Watelox and they suggested one coat of their sealer finish and then one coat of the Original Satin Finish. Does that sound like a good idea or something you would challenge ?

    Also. I don't want a high gloss finish so I guess I may have to give up some visibility to the grain. But am I better off using a high gloss and then using the micro mesh to bring it to a satin finish - would that work ? Finally, some people say to sane with 0000 steel wool when done. I have this already and don't have the micromesh. In your opinion is there a big difference ?

    Thanks for the advice,
    Allen
    Allen,
    OSF = Original Sealer Finish, I hope you live where you can still purchase the non VOC compliant product (I have never used the VOC Compliant but have heard rumors of issues that do not occur with the non VOC).

    I would not use the satin at all nor would I use steel wool. MicroMesh pads come in 8 or 9 "grits", you start at 1500 for final leveling and dust nib removal and work your way up to whatever sheen you prefer from there. The scratch pattern determines the sheen, no need to further cloud the finish with the solids in satin. Another reason to use only OSF is that you don't have to worry about rubbing through the satin layer exposing the higher gloss of the OSF below. Google MicroMesh, this is a great product originally developed for the aircraft industry to remove scratches from plane windows. MM comes in a variety of forms: 8x10 sheets, 3x5 double sided pads, and 5" diameter, H&L backed pads for use with a ROS. It makes rubbing out relatively easy and foolproof.

    Scott is correct in advising the use of a grain/pore filler ifa super smooth finish is your desire. Waterlox does NOT fill quickly, think many, many coates.

    First photo is OSF on Maple and Wenge (you can see how OSF pops the grain on a really dark wood like Wenge)
    Second photo is foam brush applied OSF on Walnut
    Third photo is OSF wiped on Walnut
    (None of these hada pore filler used.)

    Hope this helps but if you want to discuss I am more than open to a phone call - regards Bill
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Bill McNiel; 03-21-2017 at 6:07 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    New Hampshire, USA
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    240
    Here are a couple pictures of a small walnut table finished with waterlox OSF. I filled the grain using crystal lac and leveled the finish every few coats with micro mesh to get the desired look. I didn't use micro mesh after the final coat.
    IMG_1219.jpgIMG_1222.jpg

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    SE Michigan
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    3,222
    Another filler approach is to use Watco and wet sand in progressive grits up to 600 -800. I usually do an initial sanding to 220. Then flood on the Watco and let soak in for 30-45 minutes, then wipe off. Let dry 24 hours. Resoak, wet sand with 400, then initially wipe off against the grain, let dry for about 30 minutes, then wipe off any remaining excess. Repeat with 600 grit after 24 hours. Then 800, if you wish. This is a lengthy process, but will produce an absolute glass like pore filled surface.

    Here's the result from one table I did. You can see the "pores", but you can't feel them.

    IMG_0452.jpg

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McNiel View Post
    Allen,
    OSF = Original Sealer Finish, I hope you live where you can still purchase the non VOC compliant product (I have never used the VOC Compliant but have heard rumors of issues that do not occur with the non VOC).

    I would not use the satin at all nor would I use steel wool. MicroMesh pads come in 8 or 9 "grits", you start at 1500 for final leveling and dust nib removal and work your way up to whatever sheen you prefer from there. The scratch pattern determines the sheen, no need to further cloud the finish with the solids in satin. Another reason to use only OSF is that you don't have to worry about rubbing through the satin layer exposing the higher gloss of the OSF below. Google MicroMesh, this is a great product originally developed for the aircraft industry to remove scratches from plane windows. MM comes in a variety of forms: 8x10 sheets, 3x5 double sided pads, and 5" diameter, H&L backed pads for use with a ROS. It makes rubbing out relatively easy and foolproof.

    Scott is correct in advising the use of a grain/pore filler ifa super smooth finish is your desire. Waterlox does NOT fill quickly, think many, many coates.

    First photo is OSF on Maple and Wenge (you can see how OSF pops the grain on a really dark wood like Wenge)
    Second photo is foam brush applied OSF on Walnut
    Third photo is OSF wiped on Walnut
    (None of these hada pore filler used.)

    Hope this helps but if you want to discuss I am more than open to a phone call - regards Bill
    Bill, this is really great insight. Unfortunately, I am full of questions. So a call might be a good idea. I will ask the question here but let me know if should go to the phone.

    1) Is this OSF finish sanded with the micromesh product ? of shown as it dries ? because the sheen is what I am looking for.
    2) If I do need to sand the sheen down, will not work on the sides of a large cookie slab with some large chunks of wood missing on the sides ? My concern is that where there are sharp bends in the wood I will have creases where the micromesh doesn't fit that remain shiny while the sanded portions have a lower sheen. (BTW: my next project - I already have the slab - is a long apple slab bar. the edges are rough and run the length of the slab.. so the same question will apply eg. will I be able to buff it to a consistent finish with the bumps and curves in the wood.
    3) did you use grain filler on these pieces ? because they look nice as-is and my slab looks pretty smooth with little sign of pores even now before I have finished it, so maybe I keep my first project simple and skip the grain/pore filler. - reasonable or mistake in your opinion ?

    Thanks so much for your advise and the photos which really help. Let me know if a call is in order.

    Allen

  13. #13
    Beautiful. which Watco finish is this ? I have been told Waterlox if better suited to protect from Water and heat. - true of false ?
    Beautiful work !

  14. #14
    BTW. How much Waterlox do I order ? Is a Pint sufficient or do I want a quart ? I understand the product is difficult to store.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Shoreline, CT
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    2,923
    Watco is a oil/varnish mix. It gives a "in the wood" finish that should never build a film finish. While it is much more water protective that pure oil, linseed or tung oil, it is not nearly as protective as any of the oil based varnishes whether Waterlox or Formby's, or Pratt & Lambert 38.

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