Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 25

Thread: need a jointer

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Mountain Home, AR
    Posts
    547

    need a jointer

    I'm getting ready to glue up the top on a new dining table. I had thought about taking it to a cabinet shop with a wide belt sander, but I'd rather do the work myself if I can find a decent jointer (already posted a WTB in the classifieds). I don't have much experience with hand planes and only have a couple of serviceable, no-name jacks for bigger work. The ones I use most are my Kobalt mini block and rosewood bullnose and shoulder planes.

    From what I've see and read I think a #7 jointer is what I'm looking for. My 6" jointer is fine for most tasks, but I think I might get better results gluing up a top if I can hand-joint the boards. Plus, a jointer plane would allow me to take the tool to the wood when the wood is too big to take to the tool.

    I guess my question is - if I can't find a good used one, what are my options for buying new? I see some from Wood River, Lie-Nielsen, Stanley, Record and so on, and the prices vary wildly. I think LN is probably the creme of the crop here, but can I get similar quality/function/durability with a less-expensive brand? I'm not a vintage tool guy and probably would prefer buying new, but I would take fit and finish over 'pretty' any day. I'm not terribly concerned with price, but I might have a hard time pleading my case if it is more than $300.

    Thoughts or suggestions?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Broadview Heights, OH
    Posts
    711
    Wes,

    I'd suggest that while a #7 jointer is the perfect tool for the job, you can get by without it. If you can joint your edges square on the electric 6", you can remove the ripples and get that fresh ready to glue edge by taking a light pass with your block plane or even #3 sized smoother. You only will be taking off a few thousandths, and it's not going to cause your joint to be dished or suffer in any way. I agree with your premise to get rid of the jointer ripples for a better joint.

    As an alternative, a #6 try plane is a great substitute. They are usually much cheaper because they are not in the jointer category, but your board edge will not miss that extra 6" of plane sole.

    Some options that range from free to modest. Good vintage jointers are usually more expensive than their already expensive modern counterparts.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Mountain Home, AR
    Posts
    547
    Thanks Pete. For this particular project I'm looking for the best way to take the top down to final thickness. I've always gotten by with my #4 for the occasional hand-tooled joint, but I don't think it is up to the task of flattening and finishing a top to final dimensions.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Broadview Heights, OH
    Posts
    711
    I guess I misunderstood. I thought you were prepping the edges. I'd still go with the #6 size. Cheaper and for surface prep it would be great. Having said that, if you have already face jointed and planed the boards, just glue them up and use whatever plane you are comfortable with. The 112 Scraper was specifically developed for this task. Removes glue squeeze out and the remaining fuzz from the electric process.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    27,347
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Taran View Post

    [edited]

    Good vintage jointers are usually more expensive than their already expensive modern counterparts.
    If this were true, there wouldn't be any jointers in my shop, let alone four if the transitional counts. One #8 didn't require much more than a sharpening for $50. A #7 required quite a bit of work for $21.25. It was documented here:

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ker-to-Jointer

    It did require a new blade, but even a more expensive blade/chip breaker keeps the price well below what can be had for new.

    There is a spare #8 that is sitting waiting for a bit of TLC. Not sure if all the parts are available. It does need a tote repair. My only need it to find some time and get my back end into gear and incentivized to work on getting it together.

    At one time it was my opinion a #8 wasn't really needed in my shop. Now it is my go to jointer.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Broadview Heights, OH
    Posts
    711
    Exceptions do exist. Just reporting what I see at the tool meets.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Stone Mountain, GA
    Posts
    751
    This is a job for a try plane - #6 or #7 is a good size. I recommend a bevel down design with a chipbreaker, the iron cambered with a radius somewhere between a jack plane and a smoother, and the chipbreaker set fairly close.

    I have a #7 and #8 from ebay - I did not try to get any kind of special deal, and paid I think $125 for the more expensive one, which was the 'buy it now' price. Someone had already gone through and cleaned the rust, flattened the sole, etc. All I had to do was fine tune the blade back and bevel and prepare the chipbreaker. Not a bad deal at all IMO...but of course there's no guarantee you'll get one that doesn't need a lot of work, even if it looks clean on the listing.

    As for new planes under $300, I think I'd be choosing between the Veritas #6 Fore Plane and the Woodriver #6 or #7. There are bevel up planes but I wouldn't recommend them for a try plane - its more trouble to apply a useful camber, and they lack a chipbreaker, meaning you need to increase the bevel angle to deal with uncooperative grain, which increases planing force and makes for more work.

    A wooden plane is also something to consider as well, when set up well they are nicer to use for flattening wide surfaces. But its hard to find an old one in decent shape, and a new one will be above your $300 limit.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    N Illinois
    Posts
    4,602
    To save a bit of $, I'd reco a pre WW2 STANLEY #7...You can find them on CL ocassionally or the auction site for under $150...May need a bit of cleaning, adjustment but a good "bang for the buck" and when sharpened, will handle your flattening project..Just my opinion.
    Jerry

  9. #9
    I find both my number six and number seven Stanley very useful. If you are new to hand planes I would try to network with other woodworking people if you are going to buy used. Being able to buy a plane that is already in working condition is helpful if you are just starting out.

    The wood river number six is a good safe bet...Priced a little more reasonable, and a decent plane.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Mountain Home, AR
    Posts
    547
    Thanks guys. I'm usually one to buy fixer-uppers, but right now I just need a working tool for a specific job. Ideally one that I'll get a lot of use out of down the road and that will help me improve my joinery technique.

    I glanced at the Woodriver planes earlier today and they look decent enough, but hard to tell over the www. What caught my eye was the set that Woodcraft sells - a low-angle block, #4 and 6 bench planes for $379. If they are good tools that's a pretty good price and all planes I'd like to have. 'My' #4 actually belongs to my father-in-law...I just haven't given it back to him. For ~12 years.

    For now though I think I will pick up a good used #7 if I can find one and put the WR set on my Christmas list.

    And I almost forgot - I've got a couple of beater planes I paid $20 for some years ago that I have just never fixed up. One is a 5 1/2 that would probably serve me well, but it is rough and the side is cracked at the throat. A project for another day.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    3,739
    I think a jointer plane is best used for truing up edges and you will drive yourself crazy with a plane that long on a table.
    I use a Ln Foreplane to get things leveled out then go straight to a smoother.The key is to get down in those low spots without have to cut 90% of the table flat.
    Good luck I don't remember if you mention the wood so I hope it's friendly.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Mountain Home, AR
    Posts
    547
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Hughes View Post
    I think a jointer plane is best used for truing up edges and you will drive yourself crazy with a plane that long on a table.
    I use a Ln Foreplane to get things leveled out then go straight to a smoother.The key is to get down in those low spots without have to cut 90% of the table flat.
    Good luck I don't remember if you mention the wood so I hope it's friendly.
    I guess I was just assuming that a longer plane would equate to a flatter surface. The current thickness is 7/8" and I'm aiming for ~3/4".

    The table is a simple 4'x5' draw leaf table with 15" leaves. The wood is primarily red oak bordered in post oak with post oak breadboard ends. The breadboard pins are walnut, as are the wedges for the through tenons on the aprons. It is all from trees we cut out of our yard 4 years ago and sawed at my FIL's mill. I've made some goofs that are annoying, but nothing yet I couldn't recover from. I figure I have to make some goofs here and there to learn not to next time. And it is just wood. The simple design is almost modular and there's no hardware. If the goofs I can't fix bug me enough I can always rebuild just that part.

    I will post pics when I get it done.

    Also been meaning to post some pics and videos of our sawmill in action. It is an OOOOLD circular mill my FIL modified to run off the PTO on his tractor. Right now it has a 36" blade, but we also have a 46" for the big stuff. I'll shoot some video next weekend when we try to make a dent in our log collection.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    3,739
    Sounds great I love harvesting and building from air dried wood.Its a real pleasure to handplane too.
    I guessing your not planning on French polishing the top.So that level of flatness is just not necessary.
    What wood really be nice if you can get a nice camber on your finishing plane that leaves a subtle waviness.( Is that even a word)?
    Good Luck looking forward to see your work.
    Aj

  14. #14
    If you managed a good glueup with hardly any level differences bewteen the individual boards, then it is allready reasonably flat and you won't need a jointer. I would go directly to a smoothing plane, #4. It's advantage is that when the table isn't totally flat, this small plane will be able to dip into any shallow hollows. With a longer jointer or tryplane you would need to do a complete flattening of the table top again, which isn't really neccessary. When you goofed up the glueup and there are ridges between the several boards, then you are back to square one and need to do an entire flattening process.

    A scraperplane like mentioned above would be usefull too, allthough it doesn't give quite as nice a finish.

    And thicknessing is a process you'd want to avoid in handplaning as much as possible. If you want the looks of a 3/4" thick tabletop while the boards are still 7/8", I would relieve the underside of the edges, not bring the entire board down to 3/4.
    Last edited by Kees Heiden; 03-22-2017 at 6:09 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kees Heiden View Post
    If you managed a good glueup with hardly any level differences bewteen the individual boards, then it is allready reasonably flat and you won't need a jointer. I would go directly to a smoothing plane, #4. It's advantage is that when the table isn't totally flat, this small plane will be able to dip into any shallow hollows. With a longer jointer or tryplane you would need to do a complete flattening of the table top again, which isn't really neccessary. When you goofed up the glueup and there are ridges between the several boards, then you are back to square one and need to do an entire flattening process.

    A scraperplane like mentioned above would be usefull too, allthough it doesn't give quite as nice a finish.

    And thicknessing is a process you'd want to avoid in handplaning as much as possible. If you want the looks of a 3/4" thick tabletop while the boards are still 7/8", I would relieve the underside of the edges, not bring the entire board down to 3/4.
    Agree with Kees..and if you are not terribly familiar with hand planes, even fairly basic #4 planes can be made to work very very well. I have a Frankenplane (Stanley lever cap, Sargent plane body, Eclipse blade, mismatched handle and tote....) that will cut a shaving you can read the New York Times through when it is good and sharp. Having several #4 planes can work out quite well.

    I have six I use regularly...

    The Frankenplane and a W II era type 17 Stanley that I use for coarse work.

    A modern Stanly Sweetheart and a vintage type 13 Sweetheart (about 1927) for general purpose smoothing.

    A ECE Primus wooden plane and a Lie Nielsen #4 bronze for final smoothing and detail work.

    Not having to sand much has made woodworking infinitely more productive and enjoyable.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •