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Thread: Plane choice for a beginner?

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Lau View Post
    Scott,

    How big are you? What type of projects?

    I have medium hands, but work on smallish stuff. I like a block, size 3, LAJ, and size 7.
    Really, you can get by with a block and size 4.
    I know one flamenco luthier that only uses a block plane as his only plane.

    A #4 can easily be used as a scrub--you may just want to have an extra cheap body and a toothed blade....although a Mujingfang would be great here too.

    I may be a minority here, but I'd prefer to use a router on a sled or a planer instead of a scrub!
    Then again, I'm probably wimpier than most guys here.
    About 5'7", 155lbs but I'm still a young buck, 23 years old so I can put some oomph into the tool.

    Honestly I haven't a clue what projects yet I want to make a some oilstone boxes, a coffee table, and a maybe just maybe a chair.. I understand I'll need a spokeshave for that though... maybe you can give me an idea?

    I'm thinking veritas low angle block plane because I can add the tote and knob and use it in lieu of a #3 but also as a block.

    Ive been thinking about gettting a jack but can't justify it yet. When I say I've got a tiny shop, I mean a storage closet. It fits my 24"x48" work bench but that's using almost the whole width of my space. I've got enough room to walk around but not the space I would like. I digress it's not about the size, it's about how you use it.... (I hope that one got some laughs, and some" that's what she said" thoughts)

    My #4 as seen further up this thread is only "ok" as of yet but I can't pinpoint if it's my set up or the plane. Probably my set up.... but if nothing else the blade is razor sharp. I'd like to have it looked at but I can't afford shipping both ways to the states and back up here. I will keep at it.

  2. #62
    Send that plane to Steven Newman as he offered. I bet he can make it sing for you.

    "Honestly I haven't a clue what projects yet I want to make..."

    I'd skip the Veritas Low angle block - even with knob/tote. From what I read (alert, have not tried) some people find it on the large side for a traditional block. A small smoother is really a special(ish) plane that not everyone needs.

    Use your No 4 and your existing block. Don't buy anything.

    Make your coffee table and oilstone box with that #4 and your block. You can do it.

    Then re-visit this thread and let's see if the desire persists. I'm certain I'm projecting my own experience onto you and I apologize, but too often I get fixated on a particular plane, only to work through a project and find my focus has shifted to a new mortise chisel. I think the best advice is to do with what you have. Buy only when you realize you cannot.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    Send that plane to Steven Newman as he offered. I bet he can make it sing for you.

    "Honestly I haven't a clue what projects yet I want to make..."

    I'd skip the Veritas Low angle block - even with knob/tote. From what I read (alert, have not tried) some people find it on the large side for a traditional block. A small smoother is really a special(ish) plane that not everyone needs.

    Use your No 4 and your existing block. Don't buy anything.

    Make your coffee table and oilstone box with that #4 and your block. You can do it.

    Then re-visit this thread and let's see if the desire persists. I'm certain I'm projecting my own experience onto you and I apologize, but too often I get fixated on a particular plane, only to work through a project and find my focus has shifted to a new mortise chisel. I think the best advice is to do with what you have. Buy only when you realize you cannot.
    You are right. I will make my table and boxes and then if need be buy more planes. I often get fixated on tools too.

  4. #64
    So I haven't flatten the sole of the Stanley I acquired. I set the frog skewed because it didn't seem to be machined straight to plane body... set up a cut checking both side and making sure the shavings were equal size as measured with a set of vernier calipers. Got this shaving down to 0.002" on soft pine. I could not get a thinner full length and thickness shaving. Is this ok for the first set up?

    When I got done playing around with the settings I found that my piece I was playing with had a massive chamfer to it. Like I was planing on an angle.

    Wouldi I have to adjust my settings or body position? Im nice and set to where I can easily take a nice thin shaving and the sound is right but my piece ended up with a big twist and the edge I was planing was flat but / instead of |.

    Thanks in advance guys.

  5. #65
    All you can ask of your plane is that it take a full-width, thin, tearout-free shaving. The edge of the piece is the user's responsibility. Scribble your edge with pencil, diagnose and adjust your effort with each stroke.

    Practice. You will get it.

  6. #66
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    Scott, sight down the sole and see if the blade is protruding evenly. If it is, then your technique needs adjusting, if not then adjust the blade to protrude evenly and try again.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Archi View Post
    So I haven't flatten the sole of the Stanley I acquired. I set the frog skewed because it didn't seem to be machined straight to plane body... set up a cut checking both side and making sure the shavings were equal size as measured with a set of vernier calipers. Got this shaving down to 0.002" on soft pine. I could not get a thinner full length and thickness shaving. Is this ok for the first set up?

    When I got done playing around with the settings I found that my piece I was playing with had a massive chamfer to it. Like I was planing on an angle.

    Wouldi I have to adjust my settings or body position? Im nice and set to where I can easily take a nice thin shaving and the sound is right but my piece ended up with a big twist and the edge I was planing was flat but / instead of |.

    Thanks in advance guys.
    A 0.002" shaving is pretty good for starting out.

    The blade has to be very sharp to get much thinner. Also the sole of the plane needs to be relatively flat. One test for this with a sharp blade take as thin of a shaving as possible. When the work piece is producing a good shaving over the full length use the plane without any downward pressure. If it is taking the same shaving as when you were pushing down on the plane then it is likely has as flat a sole as is needed for most work.

    At times in my posts it may seem my shavings are measured to the point of obsession, but for side to side thickness it is more of how the shavings feel in hand. Besides, by the time you have measured a lot of shavings you get a good idea of how thick a shaving is without a caliper. With the plane set for a very thin shaving, a shaving from one side of the blade is compared to a shaving on the other side of the blade. When they feel the same the lateral adjustment is good to go. It is amazing how precise a measurement device our fingers can be.

    My planing still gets a slope/chamfer on the edge of a work piece at times. Once all the saw marks are removed the work is checked for square. Then any out of squareness is compensated by tilting the plane and taking a narrow shaving along the high edge. The tilt is kind of guessed/felt by how much out of square the piece is compared to how thick the shavings are being made.

    As an example, if the out of square looks to be about 0.008" and my shavings are about 0.002" my plane is held to take a shaving of about 1/4 of the width of the edge. This shaving is taken very carefully over the entire length. Then this flat is used to take the next shaving of about 1/2 the width then 3/4 of the width and finally full width. Check and repeat as needed. Others are sure to have their own methods to address an out of square piece.

    Over time one of my findings was when there has been a lapse in my shop time my planing tends to tilt to the same side. With a bit of shop time my "balance" usually can be corrected to get back to "feeling square" again.

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 03-29-2017 at 12:15 PM. Reason: A lot of wording
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  8. #68
    Is it common for Stanley's of this era to have an uneven mouth opening at the front? Like jagged instead of machine square to the sole?

    I am sure this is not one of Stanley's finest

  9. #69
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    Depends on which side of the opening. Might be from all the use it has seen over the years. Maybe take a file to it, if you want. Jack planes aren't noted for NEEDED a tight, square mouth. people that think they need a "New" Iron, wind up filing the mouth open, anyway. Is the "jagged" opening BEHIND the iron? Not a big deal, either, as the edge of the iron is what counts.

    If you want, you can square the opening, all it will do is open the mouth further...

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Archi View Post
    Is it common for Stanley's of this era to have an uneven mouth opening at the front? Like jagged instead of machine square to the sole?

    I am sure this is not one of Stanley's finest
    I have seen them with a ragged edge on the mouth from rough casting.

    The era of this plane's manufacture was at the finish line in the race to the bottom. American plane makers were trying to out do each other in producing for the absolute lowest cost. Some of the current day offerings are even worse.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  11. #71
    Steven I don't think it's from use, judging by the minimal wear the rest of the plane with the exception of the poorly sharpened iron. It is a rough casting as Jim mentioned. I couldn't find the words to explain it.

    Real shame if I would have known this I would have passed up on it.

    Are the Stanley handyman any better? I found one in good condition for $15 CAD on eBay and bought it.

  12. #72
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    Are the Stanley handyman any better? I found one in good condition for $15 CAD on eBay and bought it.
    The Handyman planes are not their best products but many find them to work well. In the time period they were on the market I would imagine $15 CAD was likely close to the price they sold for new.

    From ~1907 - 1930 is considered the "Golden Age" of Stanley tool production.

    For me the bargain years of Stanley planes is 1902-1907, type 9. They do not have a frog adjustment. How often do people adjust their frogs? They also come at a lower price than type than type 10 through type 13. My personal preference is for a low knob. Starting with type 14 a ring was included in the casting around the base of the knob. This makes it near impossible to use a low knob.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  13. #73
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    SDC13212.jpg
    This was a #5 sized Handyman I had a few years ago...
    SDC13209.jpg
    They can be cleaned up, and sharpened. Nothing really fancy about them..

  14. #74
    Ok thanks for the info guys.

    Today I played around a bit with my G12-220 Stanley Block Plane (Made in England). I ended up sharpening it again. Got 0.001" shavings with ease.

    However I can't get these yet with my blue Stanley #4 and the edges are identical. I might try flattening the sole. See if it improves anything.

  15. #75
    Here's a little update on my progress. I've acquired some more tools since I last posted. A Veritas low angle jack with 3 blades, 25', 38' and 50'. I also acquired a marking gauge and some winding sticks. My Stanley handyman came in the mail too.

    I tried playing with the winding sticks but haven't gotten the hang of that yet. The marking gauge will help my work immensely.

    I just spent an hour or so taking shavings and making sure my blade on the low angle jack was in alignment and that both sides of the blade were cutting identical thickness shavings. Once I got it set I put it in its plane sock and put it back on the shelf. This plane is freaking awesome!!! Easy 0.001" shavings. I love the adjustable mouth vs moving the frog. It will make my joinery a lot better until I save up for a low angle jointer.

    The handyman I recieved was unfortunately broken. The adjustment for cutter depth was broken someone had stripped he screw. Not to worry the casting was immaculate. I took the frog off my other Stanley from the 60's( according to Jim) since I find the casting on this plane heavy, rough and out of square, and put that on the handyman base. I got the mouth to where I wanted it and spent a half hour or so taking shavings and getting it set up. Learning it's ins and outs (not fully but getting more familiar). The great part is I now have 2 iron/chip breakers in case one gets dull in use I can pop in the other.

    I am finally starting to get the hang of things. Lots more to learn.

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