Electrical help

[Bob Cooper]

i cannot figure out where a wire terminates. What I have is a wire that should be hot and supply a three way switch. It has no power and I cannot tell where it goes to tie into power. This was wired a long time ago and I just now was looking up lights -- this is for under cabinet lights and it took me forever to get to building these cabinets in the garage.

My drawing indicate that that it should go to the breakers but I'm not sure that's true because there's only 3 under cabinet fluorescent lights in this run. Also I've looked at the breakers and I see no capped or non-connected wireseè

any ideas how I could trace this out? Do I need some type of tool that transmits a signal down this line?

my backup is to pull power off of a nearby circuit and cap this unenergized hot line.

[Brice Rogers]

There is something that is referred to as either a cable tracer or signal tracer (google it). It puts a signal on a wire and with the probe you can follow where it goes. This is one of dozens that are out there: http://www.all-spec.com/Catalog/Test...kVjxoC1bLw_wcB

[Chris True]

Sounds like the traveler which would be unpowered until the other switch is thrown.

[Vince Rosypal]

Here are some example for three way switch wiring http://www.easy-do-it-yourself-home-...g-diagram.html

As noted previously the red is typically a carrier wire and is dependant on the position of the first three way switch.
Also note that there are specific three way switches needed for this
From your main panel there should only be 2 wires (Black and White).... well technically 3 with the ground

[Bruce Wrenn]

Sounds like the traveler which would be unpowered until the other switch is thrown.

Or it could be lead to light fixture. At switch, you should have five wires, 2 black, 1 red , and 2 whites. The whites are the neutral, either red or one black will be hot depending upon switch position. Other black is either feed to light or supply

[Vince Rosypal]

Or it could be lead to light fixture. At switch, you should have five wires, 2 black, 1 red , and 2 whites. The whites are the neutral, either red or one black will be hot depending upon switch position. Other black is either feed to light or supply

It all depends on how it was roughed in.... in the link I provides above there are several ways to wire up the circuit and the wire counts vary
Typically it would be as you described though

[John K Jordan]

i cannot figure out where a wire terminates. What I have is a wire that should be hot and supply a three way switch. It has no power and I cannot tell where it goes to tie into power. This was wired a long time ago and I just now was looking up lights -- this is for under cabinet lights and it took me forever to get to building these cabinets in the garage.
My drawing indicate that that it should go to the breakers but I'm not sure that's true because there's only 3 under cabinet fluorescent lights in this run. Also I've looked at the breakers and I see no capped or non-connected wires
any ideas how I could trace this out? Do I need some type of tool that transmits a signal down this line?
my backup is to pull power off of a nearby circuit and cap this unenergized hot line.

Bob,

Let me understand - the 3-way light circuit with two switches and three fixtures is already hooked up and is supposed to power some lights but doesn't? Did it ever work? Are the switches wired up but the light fixtures never wired in? How do you know the unenergized line in your hand is the one that is supposed to power the circuit. I personally would NOT connect another feed to this circuit without understanding exactly how it is wired. I've seen some unbelievably crazy wiring in the last 50 years! (Usually in the wake of a supposedly professional electrician.) Disclaimer: I am not an electrician, except in Mexico.

There are multiple ways to wire a set of lights on a 3-way circuit and some are confusing. If it never worked, it could even be wired incorrectly. When I moved into this house I found one light circuit with 3 and 4-way switches that was completely kablooie. And one of the switches was in a 4-gang box tightly packed with a rat's-nest of wires. It took me 1/2 hour to trace the existing wires then figure out how to fix it.

There are several ways to wire a (legal) 3-way circuit. There are other ways that will work but are improper and can be dangerous. For the proper way, there are several configurations and although they can look a lot different depending on how the cables are run, they are logically the same.

The first thing I would do is trace out the existing wires and find out exactly what is connected to what.

Do you have a meter? (volt/ohm, multimeter) You can use the ohm or continuity setting to trace the wires.
Determine which breaker feeds the circuit. (if this is a problem, see below)
Turn off the breaker
Remove covers from both switches and all light fixtures.
Test the continuity between each point and every other point and make a diagram.

For confused 3 and 4-way circuits I find it easier to first make a logic table with each connection point tested with each switch in first flipped one way then the other.

I think of a 3-way circuit in the simplest form. I made a quick drawing. The power to the load (the lights) is either off or on one traveler or the other, depending on the switch positions.

3-way switch wiring_c.jpg

Keep in mind this is a logical drawing. The load is sometimes fed directly by the hot wire instead of the common/neutral wire. (I think this is unsafe although it works fine.) As mentioned, the actual physical wires (and wire colors) can vary widely depending on how the cables are run. For example, the power from a breaker or other circuit can come in to either switch box or one of the fixture boxes. They can be confusing. If wired incorrectly from the start, they can be VERY confusing!

BTW, for testing continuity on a circuit (with the power off) I make a long test wire that will reach to the furthest point with a clip on one end. Then at each connection I test for continuity between the test wire and the connection.

If the problem is finding which breaker feeds the circuit, I would remove each switch and fixture cover and with the power on, test for voltage at each connection. One of the little proximity circuit testers are good for this.

If you find no power anywhere in the circuit, remember that the hot feed may come from some other fixture box or junction box anywhere in the building. It might be disconnected and taped or capped off inside that box. This is likely if as you say it was wired up a long time ago but the light fixtures were never wired in. If the junction box is illegally inside a wall or hidden in the ceiling this can be a real problem. If hunting for this unconnected wire, I would start removing covers on the closest switch, fixture, and receptacle boxes first.

There are two kinds of circuit tracers I know of. One is an inexpensive device you connect or screw into a light fixture which sends a signal down the line. A non-contact probe will usually tell you which breaker feeds it. I don't remember since mine broke years ago - you might have to have power on the circuit for this type to work.

The other can be quite expensive - a more professional device which sends a signal down a line and let you follow the signal path to see where the wire goes. This is all I know about it since I've never had one. They are sold in the better electronic supply stores. Some are made just for phone and data cables and are pretty cheap. The one I looked at and didn't buy was hundreds of dollars and was supposed to be able to trace wires inside walls.

If none of this applies to your situation, try to give a little more information. If unfamiliar with wiring in general, you might consider getting some experienced help. If I lived closer to Columbia I would gladly come visit.

JKJ

[Bill Dufour]

What color is the wire? If it is other then green, white ,or black it is probably the traveler. be aware that in lighting circuits the white wire can some times be hot

[Bill Jobe]

Why not remove power to that set of wires and buy some undercabinet leds? My wife had me put them all over the place. Some plug in, some are motion sensor and some are battery powered. Also you can buy them in kelvin numbers in almost any color of the rainbow.