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Thread: DIY Automated Dust Collector System- over my head?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Aeschliman View Post
    ...
    Aha. I got grn gate and iVac mixed up. $250 each though- yikes. I could build my own for probably $50 or less.
    Yikes indeed.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Buxton View Post
    So.. For the KISS approach, you use manual blast gates, and a remote control of sort sort to turn the cyclone on/off. A radio-based remote is nice in that it means you don't need to run wires -- again KISS. For the make-up air, perhaps you make/buy a blast gate. It gets operated by the same relay that operates the cyclone; when the cyclone is on, the make-up air gate is open, and when the cyclone is turned off, the make-up air gate closes.
    Totally. The only components I feel strongly about automating are the make-up air gates. I just know that I will forget to open them, choking the DC (and me), and I'll forget to close them, unnecessarily losing heat in the shop. Next down the priority list are the blast gates that will be difficult to access (i.e., the port in the back/base of the cabinet saw), but end of the day, I could rig up some levers or cables and pulleys to deal with them. The rest of the blast gates really aren't a big deal.

    There is a benefit for cases when I just want to make a quick cut and get lazy about turning the DC on though.

    Ultimately, the decision of whether to go fully-automated hinges on whether I will enjoy the process of learning, designing, building, and testing. It has to be more about enjoying the process than enjoying the end results. Whether that is the case remains to be seen, but I'm going to start down that path and see how it goes! I'm getting a bit antsy to get the shop set up after about 2 years of remodeling the basement, and this would be yet another delay...

  3. #18
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    Make up air? Why do you need make up air?
    NOW you tell me...

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Anderson View Post
    Make up air? Why do you need make up air?
    Because my DC and central vac vent to the outdoors rather than through filters.

  5. #20
    You could use manual gates at the machine, and automatic gates for inlet air. A motorized shutter would probably work for your needs. I have a current sensor in panel box that detects when a machine is turned on. It has a "delay on break timer that allow for DC to run 10 seconds afterwards to clear the pipes. I made it using plans in Aug 2000 FWW, and added timer.

  6. #21
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    The beauty of using pneumatic cylinders is that they don't mind being stalled (not a happy situation for most motors). I have a home brew system that has evolved over 30 years. Started with manual blast gates for each machine (only 1 HP worth of suction). Was always amazed at how you can turn off a machine and but forget to close the gate (that situation does not seem to improve with age). Before long you have 4 or 5 gates open and poor dust collection. I now have 10 machines fitted with automatic pneumatic gates and finally happy. Tap the main air supply and regulate it down to 15 psi. Use pressure to keep the gates closed and pressure to open them (no springs). Only minor issue is that all machines are 230 V and the control valves are all 120 volt so I have to cheat a little and use the ground because no neutrals are handy. NEC used to allow this on dryers and ranges so I claim my system dates back to earlier times. Fit my old gates(both plastic and aluminum) with 3/4" cylinders all are 4" except the thickness planer which is 6". Not a lot of money ($75 per gate) but sure is nice to concentrate on the cut and not the DC function.

    Frank
    Last edited by Frank Walker; 03-27-2017 at 8:33 PM.

  7. #22
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    Hi Peter,
    I have the Greengate system and it is well worth it for me as a hobby WWer. My DC is in an attached shed and exhausts outside. I don't notice any temp loss and tho I feel light headed frequently while in the shop I'm sure it's from the joy of making sawdust(and ducting it outside) and not lack of O2!! My ducting is overhead and most dust ports are low on the machines and I knew that I would "forget" to bend over to open/close the gates when scurrying from machine to machine as I mill stock. The system came with the control panel and four 4" gates. I bought an additional one and they do have 6" gates but stuck with the 4"ers. Works well for all my machines--even when hogging wide stock on a 20" planer. You can program the system to control gate opening/closing time, multiple gates at a time, turn on DC when machine turned on, auto DC shutdown when machine turned off, etc., etc. I usually turn on the DC and leave it running and the gates open and close as I move from machine to machine. Incredibly convenient, big time saver and no brainer in regard to impatiently "forgetting" to open and close the gates. I grumbled about the cost initially but after ~10 years of use it is well worth it. CS is great--I had one motor fail and I shipped it back to them and they rebuilt the gate @ a very reasonable $$. I live in Edmonds and you are welcome to test drive mine if you wish. Designing and building your own automated system sounds like fun but this plug and play system is worth the investment IMHO. Good luck and want to see pics of your new shop. John.

  8. #23
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    Update on my latest thinking.

    I bought an arduino starter kit and started going through a book with simple practice projects. Pretty fun. But long story short, I started to realize I need to learn more about circuitry than I have the patience for. It wasn't one of those things I could simply google to find out the answers to, as nearly all of the posts, blogs, and videos immediately sail right over my head. So it's really hard to learn that way.

    I decided instead to do it all with relays, and simplify things a bit. The arduino is super cool, but I concluded that it was more work than it was worth. I'm a little bummed about that, but I need to get my shop set up and get to work!

    I've purchased some blast gates from Penn State Industries, which have switches on them. They also sell the just the switches, which I can wire to my 6" blast gates (they only sell the 4" gates with the switches installed). I plan to wire them directly to a contactor or relay that turns the dust collector on and off.

    For the vast majority of my blast gates, it's easy to simply open them by hand. And since the dust collector will stay on when ANY blast gate is open, i won't make the mistake of leaving any gates open.

    For the gates that will be difficult to open by hand, like the TS cabinet pick-up and the under-table router table pickup, I will automate them with air cylinders and solonoids, wired to hall effect sensors at the machines.

    Similarly, the make-up air blast gates will be automated and wired to the dust collector current.

    And lastly, my central vac will be operated by remote control.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Buxton View Post
    Why use air to operate blast gates, not electricity?
    I tried building electric ones, once. They used a small DC motor and a piece of threaded rod that pulled/pushed the gate. They were not great. A stalled motor is a serious problem - a little bit of dust or binding can cause major problems in a hurry. A stalled air cylinder just happily sits there.

    The tubing to run an air cylinder is really no larger nor difficult to route than wires to a motor. With a motor, you likely need a DC power supply - with the air cylinders, you need a small compressor and valves - same burden, either way.

    Some people have built electrically-actuated ones using a "butterfly" valve design, but that is clearly inferior to the "slide" type that most people are familiar with. I think one of the commercial options uses a "swing" gate, which may be a viable option for an electrically-actuated version, though. That requires a lot of curved pieces, though, making it more of a design and construction hassle than a "slide" type gate.

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Aeschliman View Post
    ...
    I decided instead to do it all with relays, and simplify things a bit.
    ...
    This is a quick sketch I did to plan a central 'automated' DC system:
    IMG_0568-0000.jpg

    Red is AC, blue is DC and would require AC/DC power supply (~5Amp for ~$30.00 ...but could be AC if you pick the right components).

    M# are the motors on your tools (add as many as you need). Each one defines a 'station'.

    The S# devices are AC current switching devices like this: http://www.nktechnologies.com/curren...ensing-switch/

    R# devices are double pole relays (single-throw will work in this case, but DPDT are more common; pick coil voltage to suit).

    G# are how you'd wire the solenoid for a pneumatically operated gate. Or, you could also use this contact on the station's relay to drive a motor operated gate.

    The TDR is a Time Delay Relay (delay on 'OFF'). Relay contacts on the TDR would drive the starter on your DC. The 'R3' is to indicate how you'd tie in an additional station - - each station just parallels into the TDR.

    Operation:
    Motor (M1) on tool starts.
    Sensor (S1) closes when it detects the threshold amperage.
    Relay (R1) coil energizes--
    -- Contact (R1-1) closes and energizes solenoid (G1).
    -- Gate (G1) opens.
    -- Contact (R1-2) closes and energizes TDR.
    -- Dust collector starts.
    Motor stops.
    Dust collector runs until TDR timer expires.

    Edit: I'd use a flow control valve on the pneumatic cylinders to throttle the 'closing' air so that it takes several seconds to close. This is probably cheaper than using timer-delay relays for each station.
    Last edited by Malcolm McLeod; 04-04-2017 at 12:16 PM. Reason: slow close

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm McLeod View Post
    This is a quick sketch I did to plan a central 'automated' DC system:
    IMG_0568-0000.jpg

    Red is AC, blue is DC and would require AC/DC power supply (~5Amp for ~$30.00 ...but could be AC if you pick the right components).

    M# are the motors on your tools (add as many as you need). Each one defines a 'station'.

    The S# devices are AC current switching devices like this: http://www.nktechnologies.com/curren...ensing-switch/

    R# devices are double pole relays (single-throw will work in this case, but DPDT are more common; pick coil voltage to suit).

    G# are how you'd wire the solenoid for a pneumatically operated gate. Or, you could also use this contact on the station's relay to drive a motor operated gate.

    The TDR is a Time Delay Relay (delay on 'OFF'). Relay contacts on the TDR would drive the starter on your DC. The 'R3' is to indicate how you'd tie in an additional station - - each station just parallels into the TDR.

    Operation:
    Motor (M1) on tool starts.
    Sensor (S1) closes when it detects the threshold amperage.
    Relay (R1) coil energizes--
    -- Contact (R1-1) closes and energizes solenoid (G1).
    -- Gate (G1) opens.
    -- Contact (R1-2) closes and energizes TDR.
    -- Dust collector starts.
    Motor stops.
    Dust collector runs until TDR timer expires.

    Edit: I'd use a flow control valve on the pneumatic cylinders to throttle the 'closing' air so that it takes several seconds to close. This is probably cheaper than using timer-delay relays for each station.

    This is fantastic, Malcom. Thanks so much!

  12. #27
    Peter,

    I have a PLC controlled fully automated dust collection system in the works. I'm finally to the installation stage. I went the pneumatic route. It's going well thus far. Lots of install to do still.

  13. #28
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    Very nice!

    A PLC is a bit over my head I think! But I'd love to hear more about it.

  14. #29
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    Feb 2009
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    All of this discussion got me interested in looking at some Ecogate Green box stuff I bought from a shop that was closing several years ago. I have more or less two systems: each one for up to 8 blast gates, and one with a power relay for a 5 - 10 hp dust collector.

    I haven't installed this because: 1) I have a Euro combo machine with several electric motors and multiple blast gates which makes it more complicated to configure, and 2) I probably have to either cut up or buy a bunch of expensive Nordfab parts.

    Here's what I have:

    System #1
    Ecogate Green Box 8 gate controller
    Ecogate Power Relay (3 pole relay, 5 hp single phase 220 VAC or 10 hp three phase 220 VAC)
    4 – 6” Ecogate metal blastgates
    2 – 5” Ecogate metal blastgates
    2 - 4” Ecogate metal blastgates
    8 – 6” collars to connect the Ecogate to 6” pipe
    4 – 5” collars to connect the Ecogate to 5” pipe
    2 – 4” collars to connect the Ecogate to 4” pipe
    8 - Machine or motor sensors for each gate
    Remote switch to turn on the dust collector for a floor sweep
    Lots of wire for connection from controller to gates

    System #2
    Ecogate Green Box 8 gate controller (1 hp at 110 VAC, 2 hp at 220 VAC)
    5 - 4” Ecogate metal blastgates
    8 – 4” collars to connect the Ecogate to 4” pipe
    5 - Machine or motor sensors for each gate
    Remote switch to turn on the dust collector for a floor sweep
    Lots of wire for connection from controller to gates

    I just tested everything and it all works. If anyone is seriously interested in buying this stuff, let me know. PM me your email address and I can send pictures. Otherwise I will put it in the classified section in a couple of days. I just need to figure out how to price it! Oh, local pickup only south of San Francisco about 40 miles.

    Thanks,

    Dennis

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