There's a lot more to all this than I ever imagined. I had a Woodslicer on my old Shopsmith BS but since I have the new Rikon and am just learning to make small boxes I didn't want to buy a blade that would not work well with the 10-326 Rikon.
[OP]
Member
There's a lot more to all this than I ever imagined. I had a Woodslicer on my old Shopsmith BS but since I have the new Rikon and am just learning to make small boxes I didn't want to buy a blade that would not work well with the 10-326 Rikon.
Last edited by Bill Sutherland; 03-27-2017 at 9:19 PM.
Member
The RK is just slightly thinner than the 1/2" Tri-master but are essentially the same gauge so the 1/2" TM will be easier to tension so depending on the saw it may be a better choice.Originally Posted by Edwin Santos
The 1/2" TM will not have quite as good of a finish as the 3/4" RK since the RK is variable pitch and a higher TPI so for veneer work it would be my choice but the TM will be slightly more aggressive for milling. They are roughly the same price for smaller saws (the TM tends to have an advantage in longer lengths from most suppliers). The RK is easier and cheaper to get resharpened, the only place I know of that sharpens the TM is Daily Saw. When you get up to the 1" TM it is available in variable pitch and similar TPI to the RK so the finish advantage gets very small. I really like and use both blades in 1" as well as the Woodmaster CT and they each have pros and cons but it may not be enough that most people would even care about.
When you wear out your TM you might try the 3/4" RK assuming your saw can tension it.
BTW I must admit I have never used the 1/2" TM or the 3/4" RK but have used them both with the same tooth pattern in their respective 1"
Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.
Deep thought for the day:
Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.
Contributor
Very helpful feedback! Yes, my TM is a little long in the tooth (ha!) and I have been happy enough with it that I will definitely get another however it sounds like the RK would be a good one to add to the arsenal. I've left the all-purpose-blade club and joined the use-the-optimal-blade-for-job-at-hand camp. Even the subtle differences you've described is enough for me to justify having both.
My saw by the way is slightly obscure saw called a Meber P400, 16" wheels, 12" resaw capacity. I think the motor which says CEG, is 2.5hp but I'm not 100% sure. I've been quite happy with it but I do not believe it to be as robust as the Italian bandsaws sold by MiniMax and Laguna these days. I put a borrowed Starrett tension gauge on it once and it maxed out at about 28,000 lbs, but that was maxed out and not something I'd care to do for regular operation. Thanks again!
BTW, this may or may not be responsive to the OP's question, but once my local supplier gave me the Lenox NEO type carbon blade in error instead of the Flexback. This was a 3/8" hook tooth 3tpi. I went ahead and used it and I find it to be a very good blade for woodworking even though they don't specifically market it for wood.
Member
While the self-branded Meber P400 is kinda rare in the US you do occasionally see the Laguna branded version the LT 16 SEC which they sold in the US during the 90s. While not as robust as the current ACM (Laguna LT HD) and Centauro (Minimax MM) saws it isn't the al dente noodle most Asian 16" saws of that era were. It will be fine with 3/4" RK but will be happiest at full tension, no need to fret over cranking it up as long as you don't bottom the spring. I am guessing yours has a 1.85kw 50hz TM motor which equates to almost exactly 2.5hp. It is a nice saw, if I saw one local for the right price I'd pick it up, for whatever reason the ones I see for sale are usually either pristine or completely ragged out with that I sat outside in the rain for 3 years look.
Edit PS I am not sure the differences are large enough to have both, they are pretty subtle and I honestly tend to use them interchangeably.
Interesting about the Lenox NEO, not surprised it cuts wood well even if it is "off label", for years Lenox didn't list wood on the Tri Master cut sheet. My only concern is the hardened backer on smaller wheels. I am curious if you are able to wear it out prior to fatigue cracks developing. Some supply houses won't weld a hard backed blade shorter than 15-16'.
Last edited by Van Huskey; 03-27-2017 at 9:23 PM.
Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.
Deep thought for the day:
Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.
Member
Does the 10-326 take the same 111" blade as the 10-325? I tried two different Woodslicers on my 10-325 and never got it to tension right. It's like they were just barely too big. I ended up with Timberwolf from Suffolk, but haven't done much resawing yet.
Member
Yes, the 10-326 takes a 111" blade. Did you measure the Woodslicer? In any case both Iturra and Spectrum weld their own blades (from the same blade stock) so they can give you an exact 111" or adjust it by a small amount either way if you think you need it. I should mention Highland can get custom sizes as well but they don;t weld in-house which is at least part of the reason they are more expensive. All saws actually work with a range of sizes, the smaller the saw the smaller the range but most manufacturers just specify a single number which is usually in the middle of the range.
Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.
Deep thought for the day:
Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.
Contributor
I'm far from an expert, but I've had better luck with Timber Wolf blades than I did with woodslicers. Maybe it's as John Cox says. I did my first cuttings on woodslicers. They cut nice at first, but did not last long (hard Kempas, green cedar). Then I tried Timber Wolf. The Timberwolves are lasting much longer. I have one saw set up with a 3/4" bimetal for resawing, and another with a 3/16" for curved cutting. Both cut great. The 3/16" is a little aggressive on thin materials, but it cuts nice curves in 4" hickory without any problem.
Diamond Sterling are also good blades.
Last edited by tom lucas; 03-27-2017 at 11:01 PM.
Member
The Woodslicer blades (and the other ones that are the same blade stock) have softer teeth than standard carbon blades so while they are initially sharper they dull quicker, they have their merits but they are a niche blade but people usually don't include the proper caveats when extolling their virtues. BTW you should never gut green wood with one of these blades. They have no set so they can't clear wet swarf effectively and you can dull them in one cut.
As for the Swedish steel TW blades I don't have much use for them. They are silicon steel so they have softer teeth than a standard carbon blade (Rc60 vs Rc64) so though harder than the Woodslicer type blades they still dull much quicker than quality carbon blades though sharper initially. Their bi-metal blades are fine but tend to be priced higher than Lenox and Starrett who are both the industry leaders in bi-metal blades, the Starrett ones are probably better than the Lenox but are often harder to find in wood cutting tooth formats.
Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.
Deep thought for the day:
Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.
Member
This whole discussion is kinda demonstrates the trouble with resawing. Its a very tricky proposition and you have to pick the right horse for the course.
Its like drag racing vs stock car racing vs touring vs a daily driver that goes 250,000 miles.
Thats part of the reason the wood slicer type blades are so nice for super expensive wood. Very sharp teeth, small kerf, smooth cut, short life. Drag racing. Its the band I want when Expensive wood is on the line..
The carbide band is like the old delvery truck. It just grinds and grinds and grinds away. Not a super smooth finish. Takes a lot of power. Takes a fairly heavy kerf... May have problems bogging down. Always cuts like its half dull... May have more issues with barrel cutting, wandering, and doing things that make it look like its not got enough tension... But it grinds away forever till you finally break the band in half.
The Bimetal blade is the family sedan. Easier to deal with and a lot more economical than Mr. delivery truck carbide. Takes a lot less power and is a lot easier on your smaller saw. Reasonably easy to setup and decent enough life. The cost isnt so high that you freak out over loosing one.
The Timberwolf type hardened carbon steel blade is the economy car. Cheap and decent enough for right now.. But thats all you get out of it. These are super handy to have around for stuff you dont do all the time because it doesnt force you to sink a ton of money on bands you use 1x a year like a tight circle cutting band or a resaw band if you only do it 1x or 2x per year.
Member
You have some things right but IMO some things wrong. While I love a good car analogy I realized in trying to come up with good ones I as getting very esoteric and most people wouldn't appreciate the difference between F1 cars in the grounds effects vs blown diffuser eras...
Your assessment of the impulse hardened spring steel blades like the Woodslicer is pretty much spot on and add to that they are easy to fully tension on smaller saws.
You are off on the carbide blades though. The best carbide tipped blades will give you the best finish of any bandsaw blade, period. They don't take much more power per inch of resaw than say a bi-metal blade. The kerf depends on the blade but most of the ones we discuss are as thin or thinner than the kerf on wide set bi-metal or carbon blades. Carbide blades need more tension than carbon blades, with the right tension they will have a higher beam strength than most other blades of similar cross section so they will have higher resistance to barrelling and wandering. They are less likely to have blade drift since the teeth are ground vs set. They are simply the best resaw blade money can buy.
Bimetal blades are less economical than a carbide tipped blade. A carbide blade will outlast a bi-metal blade about 10 to 1 and only cost 4-5 times as much and can be resharpened 3-4 times for about 1/4 to 1/3rd of a new blade. They require very similar tension as the carbide blades so they don;t give a small saw a break in tension and with similar kerfs don;t really need noticeably higher power as long as the tooth pitch is similar. None of these blades should be any more difficult to setup a saw for if they have similar widths.
TW Swedish steel blades have teeth softer than a standard carbon blade. Carbon blades are a much better value for general purpose work than silicon steel but TW sells more than just Swedish steel blades.
There are a lot of factors in choosing the best blade for the job balanced with the individual needs of the woodworker and their saw(s) so an infinite number of possibilities. Each person has to look at their saw, their cuts and their budget try to wade through all the blade variations to pick what works best for them. Like life even with good research and advice one still has to make choices and try to learn from them. Often we have to try a lot of frogs before e find a princess/prince.
Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.
Deep thought for the day:
Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.
[OP]
Member
So, after all this useful and informative information, what would you suggest for an old guy to get for doing 90% resaw for small box construction? Or, should I be looking at getting a couple of blades?
Member
I have a 10-325 saw and have used Woodslicer and Resaw King blades along with others. I agree with 2 points made prior:
1. try out your set up with a lower priced blade to make sure you are good to go.
2. The 3/4" resaw king is a great blade. I got very close to table saw quality cuts right away. I had set up my saw from top to bottom prior to intalling the resaw king though.
Enjoy your saw!
Gary
[OP]
Member
When you say "I had o set up my saw from top to bottom prior to installing the resaw king" what did you have to do for that blade?
Member
For the saw in question it is basically impossible to beat a RK for resawing. That said if you ever cut veneer from rare and.or expensive wood I suggest having a Kerfmaster 5/8" blade from Spectrum on hand (Highland does not stock this variety). It has a VERY thin kerf and can be more than worth it even though it dulls fast. For example a sq ft of really nice veneer can easily be worth $10 or more. Getting 1, 2 or even 3 extra sheets out of a log/board it could pay for the blade in one shot.
If 90% of your work is resawing I don't see the point in buying bi-metal curve cutting/general purpose blades Lenox Flex Back carbon blades make sense. If you just want one then a 1/4" 6 TPI blade will handle most everything, I say 6 tpi instead of say 4 tpi since 6 allow you to keep 3 teeth in the stock down to 1/2" material. Most of my curve cutting tends to be sweeping curves and I use 3/8" or 1/2" blades for contour cutting most of the time as I have better control with the wider blades. In the end there is very little you wont be able to do with just a 3/4" and 1/4" blade.
Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.
Deep thought for the day:
Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.
Contributor
We (Minimax USA) actually sold that saw for several years. Re-badged as the "Minimax S16". Nice machine, very well built. I did not personally use one very much but seem to recall using a 1/2" Lenox carbide on it. Don't know if I would go with anything wider than that. As Van said, an RK blade might be the ticket if you need that type of blade. Like the Minimax S45, it was a machine that on paper, you could fit a 1.0" blade on it but in the real world, not enough saw for that. Best of luck with it.
Erik
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote