How to repair this old chair

[Andrew Pitonyak]

A friend asked me if I could repair a chair. Rumor is that the chair is old and I have reason to believe it.

01_full_chair.jpg

The top cross piece is screwed in place, nothing else. The portion where the back meets the seat is also screwed in with two screws (I have removed two screws and loosened two). Also, the rear pieces on the left and right are screwed to the seat.

So, I removed the top cross piece.

02_chair_top.jpg

The horizontal pieces that connect to the left and right pieces on the top, are morticed in placed. Unfortunately, the top cross piece has snapped at the mortises.

Here is the two top portions up close and pulled away. This is the best one in that it actually seems to fit and mate well with the vertical back portion.

04_chair_broken.jpg

The other side, however, does not mate as well, and someone tried to drive a small finishing nail in through the top at an angle to hold it in place. This is a back view. A piece of wood has broken out.

03_chair_broken.jpg

and here is the top of that.

05_chair_broken.jpg

This is the bottom of the chair

06_chair_bottom.jpg

So, the first question is.... how to best repair this? I lack the skills, equipment, and time to attempt to create a new back piece.
The bottom rungs are glued, so I cannot simply pull this thing apart. Is this likely to be hide glue so that I could pull them apart with a heat gun maybe?

If I did not care at all how it looked, I would simply drill through the vertical back portion and into the horizontal piece and insert a dowel. This feels tricky because the back piece is not that thick so I can probably not get away with a dowel greater 1/4" and I would need to nail it. This is more difficult since the back is curved so things are not at right angles. I also considered drilling dowel holes, but I cannot move horizontal piece sufficiently to get in there and drill the hole for the dowel, especially into the vertical piece.... and that hole would need to be perfect and at an angle for this to work. Oh, and then it would just be held in place with a 1/4" inch dowel, perhaps two of them. I also considered using a steel dowel since that would not break, but it might simply rip out of the chair back if pressure is put on it, hard to say.

I could also just try epoxy, but in the past, someone did try to glue this back, and it obviously did not hold.

[Mel Fulks]

I would remove all of the old tenon. Make a triangular cut out in the splat. Fit new piece that is long enough to also make new tenon. Sometimes patches are made with zig zag pattern to save as much original wood as possible, but I don't think that is needed here. Cut patch to match ,glue patch. Cut patch flush with rail . Fit the new tenon to old mortise .Glue.

[steven c newman]

What wood is the chair made of?

Can you get a piece to replace it,with wood that matches?

New loose tenons, all the way through....then a thin "cover" on the outside?

[Jim Koepke]

Rumor is that the chair is old and I have reason to believe it.

Old is somewhat relative. It looks to be early 20th century, but that is just my opinion.

Repair looks to be a tough chore that may be put to the test by how this type of chair is used.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

I think that this is an easy enough fix. The tenons have broken off, possibly because there is grain run out in that area. It also suggests that this is the area where most stresses occur.

I would saw away the existing tenon remnants and then make a loose tenon joint on both sides. Ensure you use straight grain for these. Drill out the mortices and clean up with a chisel, or use a power router.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[steven c newman]

Or, just bring the chair over here......along with some matching wood...

[Karl Andersson]

As Jim said, this chair looks to be turn-of-the-century (OK 20th century for the youngsters) factory made oak furniture, may have some other species like ash thrown in like on the bent brackets from seat to stile. I've used and repaired a few sets of these spindled chairs- then we finally switched to something else less prone to breaking. One problem with these is that, although they're pretty, they aren't always made in the most craftsman-like manner.

If you look at the grain in your 5th picture, the one with the nail hole, it looks like that mid rail (the broken piece) was sawn out of flat stock to get the horizontal curve instead of being bent (the curve your back fits into when you sit), so that could explain the breakage; notice the direction that the wood split from the nail and you can see the grain running out very close to the tenon shoulder. If that's the case, then if you excavate for a loose tenon, the cheeks of your 'mortise" in the rail will be very weak on the backside of the curve, just a skin of short grain, so gluing and clamping would be critical, and the glue and inside curve of the wood will take all the stress.

If I REALLY needed to keep the chair (heirloom or to keep a set whole) I would personally use straight-grained 3/8" or 1/4" oak dowels but you said you can't get a drill in there for dowels because the frame is together, so if you can get the rail off the small vertical spindles (try a heat gun first, it they stick, flip the chair, carefully soak the old glue in warm water or vinegar until it gives way) you could do the loose tenon if you make the rail's mortise open on the bottom side (so it slides down onto the tenon stuck in the stile). The strongest fix (aside from making a new piece) would be to cut away about half of the rail end on the backside for about a 2" lap joint, glue a new tenon piece into the original mortise in the back stile, then drop the rail back into place and glue the lap joint to your tenon piece. The new wood could easily be stained and varnished so it wasn't noticeable.
good luck,
Karl

[Robert Engel]

The easiest repair would be dowels. If you do not want that look, then floating tenons. I would use epoxy glue.

If you go with the floating tenons, you may need to release the back bottom stretchers and any attachments. I would heat the joints along with some gentle taps from a persuader.

BTW, Thomas Johnson restorations has a Youtube channel with lots of good demos on repairing furniture. Might be worth a look.

[john zulu]

I would loose tenon joint. A dowel for that joint won't be strong enough.

[steven c newman]

Andrew, just bring the chair over here, I am sure we can get it fixed up......

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Steve, I might just have to bring that thing out.... So Steve, do you own a heat gun?

The primary battle it seems is getting this thing apart. It had not occurred to me that I might be able to pull that top rail.

Robert, I will take a look at some of the videos.

The wood is Oak, pretty sure. And a loose tenon would have to be very snug and glued very well since that top portion is very thing and very prone to failure I think.

My friend has a full set of these, and I I believe that they were obtained from a grandparent, which is an obvious sentimental attachment.

It had not occurred to me that I could cut a V into the wood and replace it.... My largest concern is the curve in the wood. I am not comfortable bending wood (or similar), it is outside my skill set.

Now that I have seen the damage more fully, I am skeptical that any repair will hold well or long. I had considered using a thinner metal tenon since the tenon would be less prone to breaking and it could be skinnier. I have no idea how to cut a tenon that narrow in the wood.

I think that repair all hinges on being able to take this thing apart.

[Derek Cohen]

Andrew, how thin is the section?

This is usually where a power router is the best tool since, when jigged, it will cut a slot very precisely and with less force. Another possibility is a Festool Domino machine - the smallest bit/domino is 5mm thick. These tools are less destructive than chisels, or drilling and chiselling.

Steam and hot water/hot air gun work wonders in softening glue.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[steven c newman]

Sorry, don't have a heat gun....

Maybe a slab of Red Oak, bandsawn to shape, including the tenons.....Bandsaw here is very good at such things...

[Shawn Pixley]

Andrew, how thin is the section?

This is usually where a power router is the best tool since, when jigged, it will cut a slot very precisely and with less force. Another possibility is a Festool Domino machine - the smallest bit/domino is 5mm thick. These tools are less destructive than chisels, or drilling and chiselling.

Steam and hot water/hot air gun work wonders in softening glue.

Regards from Perth

Derek

The chair is likely 1910 to 1930 factory produced pressed wood. Having repaired many of these, I feel compelled to tell you and your friend that the repair likely costs more than finding an undamaged version.

That said, if the sentimental value is worth it to the owner, it can be repaired. Hot vinegar will loosen the glue joints. Today, I would fix with a domino. Previously, I used dowels or cut tenons and re-hollowed the mortise. If all the joints are loose, I would totally disassemble and re-glue the chair. The fault in these chairs is that they were poorly assembled. When someone leaned back the joints loosened and broke. Certain joints can be strengthened without affecting the aesthetics. Other joints, glue as best you can. Used women's hose makes for good clamping material when normal clamps do not work. You may have to refinish as well.

Sorry to be such a killjoy... But I graduated from the school of hard knocks here.

[Stewie Simpson]

https://paulsellers.com/2017/03/teno...on-snapped-off